http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/play...io/default.aspx

According to this link Mark Jamar has only played 7 games for 2009 and kicked 7 goals...here's his stats for the year...

So if Jamar is our number 1 ruckman who has been the number 1 ruckman all year? How has Jamar a much improved Ruckman if he only played 7 games....

I look forward to hearing from the Jamar lovers...

PJ = 16 games

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/play...io/default.aspx

Spencer = 6

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/play...io/default.aspx

Meesen = 4

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/play...io/default.aspx

.................

Hence PJ equals our number 1 ruckman of the year....

it ain't all about the goals, and if you compare jamar's output this season relative to past seasons, you will have definately seen an improvement.

it ain't all about the goals, and if you compare jamar's output this season relative to past seasons, you will have definately seen an improvement.

he debut rd 1 2003...7 years ago...and has only managed 73 games..

73 / 7 = approx 10 games a year....he's played 7 games...he's below avg this year by my book...

he's a dud...

Quality not quantity

he debut rd 1 2003...7 years ago...and has only managed 73 games..

73 / 7 = approx 10 games a year....he's played 7 games...he's below avg this year by my book...

he's a dud...

Jamar was never given a chance by Daniher, he rarely played him and when he was selected in the firsts he was given very limited game time with Whitey playing 20 plus minutes and Jamar playing what was left. So any stats you have must take that in to consideration. Since he was given the responsibility of first ruck and has been very good, I was one of his biggest detractors but he has shown he can compete with the best.

He has been injured, he has been list managed and he has been kept in cotton wool this year. We have put up with several years of ordinary football from him mainly due to lack of confidence in him by the football department and lack of self confidence. Now he has shown that he can play good football at top level you want to get rid of him?

Jamar was never given a chance by Daniher, he rarely played him and when he was selected in the firsts he was given very limited game time with Whitey playing 20 plus minutes and Jamar playing what was left. So any stats you have must take that in to consideration. Since he was given the responsibility of first ruck and has been very good, I was one of his biggest detractors but he has shown he can compete with the best.

He has been injured, he has been list managed and he has been kept in cotton wool this year. We have put up with several years of ordinary football from him mainly due to lack of confidence in him by the football department and lack of self confidence. Now he has shown that he can play good football at top level you want to get rid of him?

Thats the 1 thing that annoyed me with Danners.. I never thought White was a ruckman and if couldnt hold down a key possie, then he shouldnt have made the team. Should have been tried forward and back and Jamar (esp when Jolly left) would have been our no. 1 ruckman.

Yep. Forget the 1st few years, thanks to the above and the last couple of seasons due to injury

-it doesnt look like a good CV, but he's the best we have.

He really did show he can have as much as/more of an impact than PJ has had around the ground, with the late season big marks and goals.

Also, he's definately better in the ruck PJ.

Got to have another year surely

- if we dont use him in a deal to try to secure Ports pick 8 - (which i dont think we afford to do imo)

[

he debut rd 1 2003...7 years ago...and has only managed 73 games..

73 / 7 = approx 10 games a year....he's played 7 games...he's below avg this year by my book...

he's a dud...

*Cough*

And PJ?

Jamar achieved more in 7 games than PJ did struggling through 16 (and could not hold his spot for 22 games)

I never thought White was a ruckman and if couldnt hold down a key possie, then he shouldnt have made the team. Should have been tried forward and back and Jamar (esp when Jolly left) would have been our no. 1 ruckman.

White was AA ruckman in 2004 and dominated the competition. He was an important contributor to our 2000 and 2002 finals pushes. The problem with White is that he could not play forward or back. Great spring but could not play body on body. FWIW Jamar was a raw as blistered skin when he started. Think Spencer but shorter.

Good work Disco Biscuit

Jamar was an emergency for the blues game...amazingly kicked 5 goals. probably his most memorable of the 7 games.

i watched jamar against the saints...had a brian snap against nick in the goal square and gave away a 50m right in the face of goal..

the guy has played above himself all year...do you really want carry someone who can only manage 7 games for the year...he's 26...next year he's 27....so that will make him 29/30...when melb should be pushing for a flag...therefore we trade him or he becomes #2 ruckman for someone else...again

Mark Jamar

Unfortunately, he is another one whose season was interrupted by injury. When he was actually out there, he was, along with James Frawley, probably our most improved player this year. He worked really hard in the gym over the summer and improved his explosiveness and was then able to push forward and kick goals. This was a good effort, as we mainly considered him as a ruckman. It was good to see him make an impact on games. The key for 'Russian' is to get over his injuries and play more next year and keep that level of improvement up.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tab...37/default.aspx

As Sean Wellman notes, he was definitely an improved player when he got out on the park this year... He was much more mobile than he had been in the past, getting to more contest, having better skills, and kicking goals when moved forward...

If he strings some games together next season, ie. can play 18 plus I'd have him up there with the elite ruckman in the competition...

Edited September 10, 200915 yr by vanlo

White was AA ruckman in 2004 and dominated the competition. He was an important contributor to our 2000 and 2002 finals pushes. The problem with White is that he could not play forward or back. Great spring but could not play body on body. FWIW Jamar was a raw as blistered skin when he started. Think Spencer but shorter.

Was thinking that as i was writing the post, but still - i was just never sold on him as a ruck.

He was the best when he peaked a few years ago, as you say..

Although one (I ) may argue:

His style was never going to accomodate him as his career wound up, leap naturally dimishes, his lack of physical strength and versatility and the fact is was such a taxing style is prob what cost him his career in the end.

Instead of having an AA ruckman then - we may have a full-forward/relief ruck (instead of PJ?) playing now (a lloyd type lead up forward??) .. and of course Jamar would have benefitted greatly from this, now. Helping solve our main 2 problems presently, our ruck and forward line issues..

Back to the original point, Danners the bugger didnt have the nuts to leave him there for a season/half season so we could find out properly. He never properly explored the 'Neitz/White' combo for eg, imo..

Anyway, we digress

Jamar was an emergency for the blues game...amazingly kicked 5 goals. probably his most memorable of the 7 games.

i watched jamar against the saints...had a brian snap against nick in the goal square and gave away a 50m right in the face of goal..

the guy has played above himself all year...do you really want carry someone who can only manage 7 games for the year...he's 26...next year he's 27....so that will make him 29/30...when melb should be pushing for a flag...therefore we trade him or he becomes #2 ruckman for someone else...again

Come back when you know Garry Lyon's number.

i watched jamar against the saints...had a brian snap against nick in the goal square and gave away a 50m right in the face of goal..

The worst 50 I have seen in years. It was less than a sneeze. There was no brain snap, unless you are referring to the umpire. The commentators called the decision pathetic and it was.

The worst 50 I have seen in years. It was less than a sneeze. There was no brain snap, unless you are referring to the umpire. The commentators called the decision pathetic and it was.

i was sitting behind the goals...and saw it wit my own two eyes....for an older player he does stupid things...

i was sitting behind the goals...and saw it wit my own two eyes....for an older player he does stupid things...

What did you see?

Jamar was an emergency for the blues game...amazingly kicked 5 goals. probably his most memorable of the 7 games.

i watched jamar against the saints...had a brian snap against nick in the goal square and gave away a 50m right in the face of goal..

the guy has played above himself all year...do you really want carry someone who can only manage 7 games for the year...he's 26...next year he's 27....so that will make him 29/30...when melb should be pushing for a flag...therefore we trade him or he becomes #2 ruckman for someone else...again

This is where you run past your argument and trip over.

He is an injury prone dud, but played above himdelf in an injury ravaged year?

Apparently, I am not allowed to much more than disagree with you or else I am a bully but I will lay down some facts for you and the general public to gorge on - Jamar is our best ruckman, Martin is a best back-up ruckman, Spencer and Meesen are raw ruckmen fighting for Jamar's spot, and Paul Johnson is a wingman in Tarzan's body - he is not a ruckman.

With that in mind, Jamar is a required player and I sincerely hope that this bloke who turns 26 this month has an injury free year at the Dees next year.

[

*Cough*

And PJ?

Jamar achieved more in 7 games than PJ did struggling through 16 (and could not hold his spot for 22 games)

Jesus you're a broken record.

You're becoming a sad representation of this site.

PJ had a less than impressive year, in which he STILL knocked off both Sandilands and Cox, and you're still here whining and moaning like an old grandma about how you think he's a spud. Let it go old man. PJ deserves more support and respect from you. Matter of fact, the whole list does.

Enough's enough. Pull your head in. You're becoming the new Y_M.

DD, I reckon you make some good points. Perhaps over-enthusiastically. I think the vast majority of people on here are actually all for a Jamar trade. I doubt anyone thinks that in his handful of games he magically turned from an 8 possession liability to a 20 possession threat.

Personally, I'm all for a trade if the price is right. But given it's a skinny draft, I doubt anything past about pick 40 would yield much in the way of results.

And if there isn't a 200cm replacement, then it simply can't be done. PJ, Jamar and hopefully Meesen are the only genuine ruckmen on the list with any playing experience. Spencer has shown a bit, but is still a little way of in terms of size and engine. Martin is shortish, and needed elsewhere... only a backup.

Jamar is our best ruckman, Martin is a best back-up ruckman, Spencer and Meesen are raw ruckmen fighting for Jamar's spot, and Paul Johnson is a wingman in Tarzan's body - he is not a ruckman.

With that in mind, Jamar is a required player and I sincerely hope that this bloke who turns 26 this month has an injury free year at the Dees next year.

I agree with what you say. Jamar has finally figured out what his job is - monster the other team and get the ball to people that can use it. I remember ND saying that he would be a good ruckman once he learns just how big he is and how to use that size. I think that he has done that for the first time this year. Just a shame that he couldn't have more games. Spencer looks like he will make it but he is a few years away from having the muscle he needs. Meeson... well I thought he was an out and out spud that we had been dudded on back in Feb this year but I've changed my mind. He seems to be finding the pace of the game. I kept forgetting how young he is and how foolish it is to write off rucks until they hit 24ish unless they are completely hopeless. I thing that with a good preseason and an injury free year he will show why he was originally taken at pick 8 (?) by the Cows. Johnson? I just don't know what to make of him. He can dominate VFL and put in some great games at AFL but mostly he seems that he is trying to help the opposition. I think he is an almost. Not quite a ruck man, not quite a KPP and not quite a ruck rover. Still, with the injuries we seem to get he is probably worth keeping as a 4th backup (maybe).

But back to Jamar: if he can break even with the good rucks and monster the smalls (a la NicNat) and occasionally go forward to kick a goal, create a contest or just draw a tall defender he will be an extremely valuable player for us.

The worst 50 I have seen in years. It was less than a sneeze. There was no brain snap, unless you are referring to the umpire. The commentators called the decision pathetic and it was.

Spot on. If we weren't tanking I would have been really [censored] off.

Enough's enough. Pull your head in. You're becoming the new Y_M.

I thought he already was the new YM

PJ, Jamar and hopefully Meesen are the only genuine ruckmen on the list with any playing experience. Spencer has shown a bit, but is still a little way of in terms of size and engine. Martin is shortish, and needed elsewhere... only a backup.

PJ is not and never has been a 'genuine ruckman'.

Meesen has played the same amount of games as Spencer, how does he have any more playing experience?

I agree that Martin is probably too short to ever be a No 1 ruckman. The same applies to PJ though.

We can only trade Jamar if we are prepared to play one of Meesen & Spencer as No 1. Unless we want to keep going backwards and persist with PJ...

Personally I'd rather trade PJ for peanuts & the additional spot on our list than trade Jamar for a semi-decent pick.

I certainly don't want to see PJ playing No 1 ruck while Meesen & Spencer continue to play in the 2s.

Edited September 10, 200915 yr by torpedo

so PJ played 16 games and some people think he's crap...i think 16 games for the year is a reasonable indication of whether you can handle it at the top level. i don't think 7 games is enough games to be considered a performer. i would agree he has improved....but he's by no means a proven ruckman. I don't mind PJ...

i'm in favour of trading jamar now...we did try and trade him last year...but nobody wanted him...i'd prefer to play a younger less experienced ruckman who would play like he has nothing to lose rather than a ruckman that has been on the list for 7 years...has confidence issues and injuries.

Port Adelaide has said they wont be looking at Mark Seaby.The Port footy department is currently being propped up by the SANFL so they cant afford to pay Seaby what he wants.They have to cut back playing spending as the club made a loss again this year.Seaby is apparently out of their price range & the rumour is that Sydney have spoken to him & its at the stage where W.C & Sydney are trying to work out a deal.With Port saying day by day that they desperatly need a Ruckman & will offer up pick 8 maybe we could help.I know Jamar is starting to show something but sometimes you have to give up something to make the club better & also still rumours that he wants to leave us anyway.I would be keen to offload Jamar & our 4th round pick or Jamar & Bell to get Ports pick 8.Imagine if we had pick 1,2,8 & 18.Thats 4 picks in the top 20 where all the cream is.Thats never been done before & would be a huge boost for us.We could get Skully,Trengove at 1 & 2 & then look at Carlisle or Rohan et the number 8 & the Panos or Butcher at 18.Would have the 2 best mids then a couple of KPP.Would be a great win for us.Even Jamar or T-Mac for this to happen would be a good outcome in my opinion

so PJ played 16 games and some people think he's crap...i think 16 games for the year is a reasonable indication of whether you can handle it at the top level. i don't think 7 games is enough games to be considered a performer. i would agree he has improved....but he's by no means a proven ruckman. I don't mind PJ...

I never said PJ was crap & nobody else has. People are saying PJ is not a ruckman. And if he is not a ruckman what is he?

PJ playing 16 games as a big bodied, semi-experienced player in an injury ravaged bottom side is meaningless.

The fact Jamar only played 7 games is irrelevant to his performance, he missed them through injury.

I am not saying Jamar is god's gift but he at least has the potential to hold the No 1 ruck spot & provide the experience Meesen, Spencer & others will need while they develop. PJ is not capable of doing that because he is not a ruckman.