I knew people would knock Salopek because he's been out of the Port side. He is a very very good player. I don't know what's going on at Port, but it's not a happy place at present. A former Premiership player who works in the media told Tony Shaw that only 3 or 4 current players wanted to play under Williams.

Wow. Makes you wonder how on earth he got his extension if that is the case. The communication channels must be a little clogged at Alberton. Wakelin?

As you should expect it? He wouldn't be in and out of the side for no reason?

Things aren't always as they seem. I'm not sure that his absence is form related.

Things aren't always as they seem. I'm not sure that his absence is form related.

Fair enough, I suppose with the crap that's going on at Port it could be other issues.

He's leading the Ruck brigade at this stage, but not by as much as people keep saying. Can't believe how much hatred there is for PJ on here.

Dismissing alternative opinions as 'hatred' because you don't share their view? You can do better than that.

Despite a few 'good jobs' on some of the taller ruckman PJ's been unable to cement a spot as our #1 ruckman, despite numerous opportunities.

He's also been unable to add another string to his bow, which you need as a #2 ruck.

From 64 Inside 50s...

Defence is the one area I'm really bullish about, our best defence is better than theirs.

But it doesn't matter when your midfield is a siv and lets in 64 entries from very good kicks.

While I agree, I think many of those inside 50s for them started in their backline where our overly tall forward line had no crumbers and too many times Carlton cleared easily when the ball hit the deck.

I was struck a number of times how each side linked up from their back line and moved the ball forward to score without the opposition touching it.

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but, the bombers need ruck options, how about Jamar to the bombers with 3rd or 4th round pick pick for Davey's brother!

dont think it will happen,we chased him last year & he had a chance to come to us but signed on for a few more years at the bombers

Wow. Makes you wonder how on earth he got his extension if that is the case. The communication channels must be a little clogged at Alberton. Wakelin?

No id say Josh Francou,he writes a column in the paper here & does some radio & he always sticks the knife in & bags port at any chance he can get.Thinks they shouldv sacked Williams & thinks they need a big cleanout of players & coaching staff

Dismissing alternative opinions as 'hatred' because you don't share their view? You can do better than that.

Fair enough. See ruck stocks thread, which I've abandoned due to it becoming a broken record... I'll substitute the word "disrespect" for the word "hatred."

Despite a few 'good jobs' on some of the taller ruckman PJ's been unable to cement a spot as our #1 ruckman, despite numerous opportunities.

Numerous? He played a handful of games in the middle of the year. Played well, and when Jamar came back, he was relegated to second ruck option. He took his opportunity, and played good footy. Wasn't his fault that Jamar is the senior player. It's been like this his whole career too. He's not had as many opportunities as Jamar to play sole ruck. That's a fact.

Oh and you're criminally underrating Cox and Sandilands by calling them "taller." They're number 1 and 2, barring injury, and PJ more than acquitted himself. A point that STILL no-one seems to wish to acknowledge.

He's also been unable to add another string to his bow, which you need as a #2 ruck.

Hey. No-one's claiming he's come on in leaps and bounds... Just that he deserves more respect than many show him for his efforts these last couple of years. As I've said over and over, I find it funny that people can, within 10 games, put Jamar in as best 22, starting ruckman, and suddenly the hope of the club after he was probably the least respected player on the list for all round skill, ability, effectiveness etc etc.

If EVERYONE can backflip on Jamar, they can backflip on PJ. I just prefer to support the players when they're down, as much as when they're up. Actually, moreso when they're down. Too many people, some of them mods, come on here PURELY to whine about posters, players, coaches and administrators. It gets old, and I for one have been starving for some positivity around the place. So sue me for backing him in... I've seen PLENTY for me to persevere with the big man.

i rate boak, but i think differently about salopek. With the talk of some posters wanting boak, can you really see him fitting in our midfield when we already will soon have some top class mids with hopefully scully, trengove, strauss, blease etc. also getting boak will not come cheap.

We should stick with our picks and only trade players that are on the fringe like bell, also i reckon jamar will be and should stay a demon next year.

Numerous? He played a handful of games in the middle of the year. Played well, and when Jamar came back, he was relegated to second ruck option. He took his opportunity, and played good footy. Wasn't his fault that Jamar is the senior player. It's been like this his whole career too. He's not had as many opportunities as Jamar to play sole ruck. That's a fact.

Assuming 'that's a fact', think about why that is.

He's had ample opportunities to cement himself as the number one ruck at Melbourne.

Why hasn't he? Because he hasn't been good enough.

Oh and you're criminally underrating Cox and Sandilands by calling them "taller." They're number 1 and 2, barring injury, and PJ more than acquitted himself. A point that STILL no-one seems to wish to acknowledge.

Who hasn't acknowledged that he's done well at times?

Let us have some perspective though - a swallow doesn't make a summer.

In a wooden spoon team two years running who has dire ruck stocks PJ's failed to cement himself as #1 or #2 ruck.

Hey. No-one's claiming he's come on in leaps and bounds... Just that he deserves more respect than many show him for his efforts these last couple of years. As I've said over and over, I find it funny that people can, within 10 games, put Jamar in as best 22, starting ruckman, and suddenly the hope of the club after he was probably the least respected player on the list for all round skill, ability, effectiveness etc etc.

Please - quit with the strawman arguments already.

Within 10 games? Many have had Jamar ahead of PJ as a ruckman for far longer than that (including me).

If EVERYONE can backflip on Jamar, they can backflip on PJ. I just prefer to support the players when they're down, as much as when they're up. Actually, moreso when they're down. Too many people, some of them mods, come on here PURELY to whine about posters, players, coaches and administrators. It gets old, and I for one have been starving for some positivity around the place. So sue me for backing him in... I've seen PLENTY for me to persevere with the big man.

Sue you? Why the need for the persecution play? I also don't see why you feel the need to characterise those who doesn't share your view on PJ as haters who backflip on their views and come on here purely to whine.

You've seen PLENTY to like with PJ? Good for you. I've seen a 25 year old who has been unable to prove himself as a #1 or #2 ruck despite playing in a side with pretty poor ruck stocks, generally up against White in the dying stages of his career and Jamar, who hasn't exactly set the competition alight.

Btw, if you want to have a shot at me for coming on here 'PURELY to whine about posters, players, coaches and administrators' do so - or don't intimate it. If you're aiming that at me I think it's rubbish. If not, why mention it in a reply to me?

No id say Josh Francou,he writes a column in the paper here & does some radio & he always sticks the knife in & bags port at any chance he can get.Thinks they shouldv sacked Williams & thinks they need a big cleanout of players & coaching staff

Forgot about Francou. You might well have hit the nail on the head dee-man.

There has been alot of players mentioned with regards to a cleanout at Port. Will be interesting to see what transpires and how big the so-called cleanout really is.

Listening to Caro & Hutchy last night, they don't really know exactly what is going on, except that things aren't good at Port. They cannot believe Port re-signed Williams. The talk of trying to get Hardwick over as head assistant with the long term option to secure him as a coach after Williams. Now the talk of quite a number of players unsettled and unhappy. Where there is smoke there is fire.

Boak? Salopek? S.Burgoyne? D.Pearce?.............take your pick.

edit: Apologies...back to Jamar

I'd keep him.

a little birdy tells me Richmond have been into Jamar.

what do you think would be a fair exchange?

a little birdy tells me Richmond have been into Jamar.

what do you think would be a fair exchange?

Jamar for pick 19.

1,2,18,19,34.

What could Richmond possibly have, that we would want?

Deledio?

That's about it.

a little birdy tells me Richmond have been into Jamar.

what do you think would be a fair exchange?

tambling or post.

What could Richmond possibly have, that we would want?

Deledio?

That's about it.

Cotchin,Foley, Vickery, Pick 6.

I'd like higher for Jamar but cant see how we'll get it. Pick 19 is too low and they wont give pick 6.

is there any real substance to Russian wanting to go ? or is this rumour upon rumour etc. would have thought he had cemented his position now and beaten out PJ as to who's a possible disposal

Cotchin,Foley, Vickery, Pick 6.

I'd like higher for Jamar but cant see how we'll get it. Pick 19 is too low and they wont give pick 6.

Speculative trade: -

Noting the opening post, if it is fair dinkum and he does want to return 'home'.

Jamar & pick 18 to Port for Salopek & pick 23?

Is this even close?

Speculative trade: -

Noting the opening post, if it is fair dinkum and he does want to return 'home'.

Jamar & pick 18 to Port for Salopek & pick 23?

Is this even close?

think Id rather Boak and pick 23.. but it may be in the ball park of possible.

Why would we give up a player (Jamar) and 2nd round pick for a player who is in and out of a side that cant even make the 8? Fair enough Boak & Salopek have talent. But going on last years draft Geelong only received a 3rd round pick for Prismall, I think this would be a fairer deal. We should only trade when the deal suits us not the other way around. If Boak or Salopek are out of contract at the end of this year then we hold the aces, if not its a no deal for me.

Why would we give up a player (Jamar) and 2nd round pick for a player who is in and out of a side that cant even make the 8?

There might be a reason he's been out, something behind the scenes. It's also got nothing to do with the side not making the 8.

There might be a reason he's been out, something behind the scenes. It's also got nothing to do with the side not making the 8.

I still think giving pick 18 for a player they want to get rid of or giving a pick for a player who wants to leave is trading stupidity. If he wants to go he will leave anyway, why pay a high price for him?

I was struck a number of times how each side linked up from their back line and moved the ball forward to score without the opposition touching it.

Yeah, I noticed this too, RR. I suspect it had something to do with not manning up Gibbs, Murphy or Judd for most of the game...

Cotchin,Foley, Vickery, Pick 6.

I'd like higher for Jamar but cant see how we'll get it. Pick 19 is too low and they wont give pick 6.

Pick 3 at this stage - they're 15th, believe it or not. (Although this is Richmond we're talking about)

They will not trade pick 3, or Cotchin, or Vickery, in a million years. I can't see how we'll get something decent for Jamar at this stage from Rich.

If Jamar is to be traded his value just went up. Brendon Lade has retired at Port.

If Jamar is to be traded his value just went up. Brendon Lade has retired at Port.

What do we do Redleg? He's our No.1 ruck.

Is Mark Jamar better than David Hale?