1. Melbourne can't tackle, they would have to be the worst in the league at putting on a tackle and holding it.

2. How hard is it to man-up? There are 18 players for each team on the ground but Collingwood always had players loose.

3. Why do forwards have to start centre bounces 20 metres out form goal and not on the goal line? All this does is reduce the amount of space they have to lead into if and when the ball is kicked down there.

4. Why do all the forwards have to push up the ground, instead of players running to the bench for a rest, some should just run to the goal square for a rest as it would also provide a leading target (see point 3).

I worry about the players' intelligence (in commentator parlance, "smarts"). Having to watch it on TV, w. Channel 10's revolutionary "this is how the game looks from the moon" coverage, was maddening, but how often were Collingwood blokes standing on their own. At one point one of their ugly forwards -- might have been Anthony -- had marked on the boundary inside 50, he was obviously looking for someone to kick it to & there was one of our defenders in the foreground on the screen, back to the player, not having a clue that the ball was about to be centred. Can they be coached to be smart?

I worry about the players' intelligence (in commentator parlance, "smarts"). Having to watch it on TV, w. Channel 10's revolutionary "this is how the game looks from the moon" coverage, was maddening, but how often were Collingwood blokes standing on their own. At one point one of their ugly forwards -- might have been Anthony -- had marked on the boundary inside 50, he was obviously looking for someone to kick it to & there was one of our defenders in the foreground on the screen, back to the player, not having a clue that the ball was about to be centred. Can they be coached to be smart?

100 % correct.

Davey, Grimes, Maric, Green and Sylvia are the only ones who show intelligence on the footy field.

Bruce has the smarts but not the skill.

IMO if we used 75 - 100 less handballs we would save the opposition scoring 7 - 8 goals a match

Problem is some of our players cant kick either

After round 22 there will be alot of empty lockers at Melbourne

The refusal to kick the ball (the exception being Sylvia and Moloney) was terrible. However, again part of the problem was that often there was no option ahead to kick it to.

Bruce played as good as he can play. I thought he had a decent game.

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK HE CAN PLAY BETTER? He took good marks and got a fair bit of the ball. He is just not that good.

Agreed, he took a few strong marks in such awful conditions. He is what he is and he is a fine afl player. No he is not Chris Judd or Ablett.

I actually thought it was the other way around.

I had considered this. Yes they were down on output. But these guys have always been frontrunners. When the younger guys were playing better footy in the last few weeks, these guys were the ones that looked better, had more space. They weren't 6 mediocre players doing the job of 22, which they were all last year. Today's game, IMO, was a return to what we saw for 22 rounds in 2008. I don't mind if you say I'm interpreting events to suit my own conclusion, as I'm sure it seems that way. But I have more faith in the players you mention than to jump off the bandwagon at the FIRST SIGN of bad form. Many of these names have had good years to date. And call me old fashioned, but I like to support players, even through their form falloffs (without getting carried away of course).

Junior, Green, Wheels, Robbo, Bruce had absolute shockers. Davey was seen in patches and McLean was like molasses

Bruce, I thought, was Bruce. Still got a lot of it and provided a target here and there. He wasn't great, but geez there were 15 other guys who were worse. Green, I'd characterise as quiet.

The others, yes, shocking is the word. I'd even lean towards putting McLean in that department based on what we know he can do. 1st quarters are his trademark, and he was invisible.

Today is one of the reasons a number on the senior list will pensioned at year end. They are not up to it.

There's no doubting that, but then that happens to every club, every year just about. Unless you recruited 6-8 players a year for a number of years running.

Also, the players who are not "up to it" are only classified like that because of their age. Many of our older guys are dead-set champions of the club and deserve a lot more respect than many give them.

For example... Junior will finish at the end of the year. And fair enough. The time has come. He has fulfilled the job he was required for. Robbo likewise will make way if it's deemed the forwards we have are all long-term projects. In other words, if Newton is retained (I think he's under contract?), Robbo might find it difficult to get another year. No reason to jump on his back, and also no reason to drop him. You can expect a world of embarrassment and abuse to come if you think Jurrah, Watts, Newton and Miller will make a decent forward line.

P.S. Much of this thread is not aimed at you RR... I'm just in one of my tangental moods.

Agreed, pathetic. Very disappointing as I had 2 visitors from Perth and took them along to see our skillful future champions. No intensity. Very poor decision making (PJ was the epitome, what goes through their heads?). Kicking was woefully inaccurate. Totally disappointed. Except great game Sylvia.

I am god-damn sick of this tendency for our forwards to push up the ground. It is the reason why we are overpossessing and over-handpassing. There isn't anything to kick to up the ground. This choice of game plan does not suit the team. We don't have the skill to handpass and run the ball through a zone. We need to have 3 or 4 forwards who stay forward of the centre (preferably in the forward 50) so that there is always someone to kick to. I am sick of hearing people yell 'kick the ball' at the players when there is no one to kick to.

End rant.

worst game they've played this year, l can't believe l sat through the whole thing

The first quarter was abyssmal. The third, just as bad. I sat through the whole game. What I would like to mention, that I haven't read in this thread was that Collingwood played exceptionally well. Their pressure and manning up was excellent. This effectively created alot of errors and turnovers on top of our own unforced errors. They came to play.

The amount of short kicks through the centre corridor that got chopped off and turned over was just painful. Whilst Colin Sylvia was our standout best player for the day - even he was guilty of getting caught a couple of times and not getting the ball to a teammate.

Not one player wearing the red & blue could honestly have come off the G, put their hand up and thought they had not turned the ball over from incorrect disposal or having created a turnover in some way.

Bottom line is Melbourne, whilst let down by some of the senior players, are still quite a young inexperienced side. It's not every week they get to play in front of over 60,000.

The refusal to kick the ball (the exception being Sylvia and Moloney) was terrible. However, again part of the problem was that often there was no option ahead to kick it to.

When Grimes-Davey and PJ were handballing to each other trying to set Davey free with a precision kick, it come undone by a S**t handball by PJ which gave Didak a goal. During that handballing "drill", they had 3-4 Melbourne players in the centre corridor free incl. McLean, Jones and 2 others. One of PJ or Grimes could have hit them with a tad more confidence. But they were set on giving it to Davey. Collingwood (and other AFL sides) are awake to this. They know Davey is our go to man out of defence. We need to use other options, players need to be aware when the "heat is on" Davey when coming out of defence.

Agreed, most disappointing QB game I've been to.

Maybe a bit off topic, but I really need to vent: today also confirmed for me that its not just Collingwood who have a fair share of scumbag supporters who cant handle their grog. At about 8 o'clock, my girlfriend and I had to get a taxi to St Vincents Hospital (I won't go into detail, but something pretty serious came up) from Punt Road. We had ordered one, and were standing a few houses down from the Cricketers Arms hotel, and when it finally pulled up, six drunk idiots and a spoiled little skank who was with them, all wearing Melbourne scarves, tried to push us out of the way and jump in. The taxi tried driving a couple of metres further so they couldnt get in -the driver knew we were the ones who'd ordered the cab, and in any case didnt want to let them in because they were screeching and hollering as if it was their first time drunk. Again, they tried to shove us out the way. I've gone, "look, mate, we need to get to the hospital", and one of them replied with, "tell ya what, how about WE go to a restaurant, instead". This went on for a while, eventually we pushed through, but as I was getting in the cab, one of the [censored] pinched my book (Terry Pratchett's Reaper Man, highly recommended btw) and ran off giggling like a schoolgirl. He could have at least pinched my mobile; if you're going to have a go, have a real go, you pathetic [censored]. Anyway, it's one thing to try and steal a cab from someone, but to try and do it when you know they're trying to get to hospital makes you an absolute disgrace.

The [censored] in question probably don't post here on account of being pathetic, illiterate deadshits, but if any of you are reading this, you're the lowest form of life.

WHERE WAS THE FKN CHASING/MANNING UP?!?!?!?!?!?

Agreed, most disappointing QB game I've been to.

Maybe a bit off topic, but I really need to vent: today also confirmed for me that its not just Collingwood who have a fair share of scumbag supporters who cant handle their grog. At about 8 o'clock, my girlfriend and I had to get a taxi to St Vincents Hospital (I won't go into detail, but something pretty serious came up) from Punt Road. We had ordered one, and were standing a few houses down from the Cricketers Arms hotel, and when it finally pulled up, six drunk idiots and a spoiled little skank who was with them, all wearing Melbourne scarves, tried to push us out of the way and jump in. The taxi tried driving a couple of metres further so they couldnt get in -the driver knew we were the ones who'd ordered the cab, and in any case didnt want to let them in because they were screeching and hollering as if it was their first time drunk. Again, they tried to shove us out the way. I've gone, "look, mate, we need to get to the hospital", and one of them replied with, "tell ya what, how about WE go to a restaurant, instead". This went on for a while, eventually we pushed through, but as I was getting in the cab, one of the [censored] pinched my book (Terry Pratchett's Reaper Man, highly recommended btw) and ran off giggling like a schoolgirl. He could have at least pinched my mobile; if you're going to have a go, have a real go, you pathetic [censored]. Anyway, it's one thing to try and steal a cab from someone, but to try and do it when you know they're trying to get to hospital makes you an absolute disgrace.

The [censored] in question probably don't post here on account of being pathetic, illiterate deadshits, but if any of you are reading this, you're the lowest form of life.

aww man thats terrible luck! those people are jerks!! so what they full on nicked ya book?? report it to the police?

Nah mate, figured it wasnt worth it (got it second hand for about $15, the [censored] of it was that I was just about to the end!). Ah well, hopefully one day they'll [censored] off the wrong people- it's easy to be a hero when there's six of you verses one guy and one woman.

Couldn't agree more. The problem lies with our 5 or 6 most senior players. I say move them all on, I've had enough of them.

RR points both spot on and add Jared Rivers who has had a few weeks of poor performances in regard to decision making and being caught out on the lead (not his strong point). Yesterday NONE of our senior players had any influence on the games. Only Brad Green likely to deserve be retained beyond this year. Sad but true that none of them will still be in the side when MFC becomes successful given that is a couple of years away at least.

RR points both spot on and add Jared Rivers who has had a few weeks of poor performances in regard to decision making and being caught out on the lead (not his strong point). Yesterday NONE of our senior players had any influence on the games. Only Brad Green likely to deserve be retained beyond this year. Sad but true that none of them will still be in the side when MFC becomes successful given that is a couple of years away at least.

I don't think Rivers is in danger of being delisted at the end of this year. Far from it actually.