I know we're all very excited about our up and coming list, however I think a real problem with our list atm is we simply have too many ordinary and average players on it. Sure this gives us great depth. It means we have about 10 players in vfl who are just as good, or a touch worse than those playing at afl level... but does that leave us with a real shot a getting to the top 4?

Category A: Players who are stars and would be top line players in any team in the afl.

- Davey

Category B: Players who are very good and you would be happy to be in the team for a push to the top 4

- Warnock, Frawley, Garland, Rivers, Moloney, Bruce, Green, Mclean, Sylvia, Morton

Players we are relying on to become Category A or B over the next 24 months- in reality we know that not all of these guyz will become top line players... just like we've seen with Dunn, Pettard etc who showed some initial promise, some of these guyz are destined for mediocrity.

- Grimes, Watts, Strauss, Blease, Wonaeamirri, Maric, Cheney, Bennel, Martin

PLAYER WHO ARE ONLY EVER GOING TO BE AVERAGE PLAYERS

- Miller, Pettard, Jones, Bartram, Dunn, Buckley, P.Johnson, Jamar, Newton, Bell, Meesan, Valenti

Playeres who are either too old to be considered part of our next push for top 4, or are so speculative there is no point speculating atm.

- Bail, Jetta, McNamara, Jurrah, Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald, Whelan

Analysis

- we have only 11 players who are category A and B- Almost all of those 11 are category B, who we are satisfied with as our starting 18 players, but by no means thrilled about...

- we have 9 players who are in their first 2 seasons who we are relying on to become good players. History shows us that only 5-6 will make the grade.

- we have a mammoth 12 players (16 players if you count Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald and Whelan, who will retire soon) who are mediocre player.

- If you look at some of the category B names, there are a few names there that don't make you jump up and down

Is our team destined for mediocrity unless a few of our draft picks (Martin, Watts, Morton, Grimes, Scully etc) turn into stars?

If that is the case, are we putting too much of our faith in 19yr olds who history shows us, will not all make it?

I'd switch Green with Davey - otherwise a pretty good assessment I think.

Petterd needs to find a position that works for him ASAP, Jones is still so young and could still become a handy player

It's a pretty reasonable analysis.

But I think because of the age of alot of these guys I've allowed for "potential" to be taken into consideration.

Category A (By this I'm talking of the range of elite down to excellent, say Hird to Lyon if that makes sense. All A grade but still some difference.

Davey, Watts, Grimes, Morton, Blease, Maric, Garland, Frawley, Scully

Category B (Here I'm talking about players who are rarely if ever dropped. Often in the best list and occasionally match winners, think O'Lachlin from the Swans)

Rivers, Martin, Green, Bruce, Jones, Petterd, Mclean, Moloney, Bennel, Jurrah, Warnock, Strauss, Jetta, Sylvia, Wonaeamirri, Bruce, Butcher

So by my calculations our list is in excellent shape. With players of this age you have to allow for potential in making these summaries.

I'd have Green with Davey in Category A. And I'd have Meesen in the 'players we are relying on to become Category A or B players', only because we really are relying on him making it as a ruckman, otherwise we won't have one.

But it's a good analysis I reckon.

I know we're all very excited about our up and coming list, however I think a real problem with our list atm is we simply have too many ordinary and average players on it. Sure this gives us great depth. It means we have about 10 players in vfl who are just as good, or a touch worse than those playing at afl level... but does that leave us with a real shot a getting to the top 4?

Category A: Players who are stars and would be top line players in any team in the afl.

- Davey

Category B: Players who are very good and you would be happy to be in the team for a push to the top 4

- Warnock, Frawley, Garland, Rivers, Moloney, Bruce, Green, Mclean, Sylvia, Morton

Players we are relying on to become Category A or B over the next 24 months- in reality we know that not all of these guyz will become top line players... just like we've seen with Dunn, Pettard etc who showed some initial promise, some of these guyz are destined for mediocrity.

- Grimes, Watts, Strauss, Blease, Wonaeamirri, Maric, Cheney, Bennel, Martin

PLAYER WHO ARE ONLY EVER GOING TO BE AVERAGE PLAYERS

- Miller, Pettard, Jones, Bartram, Dunn, Buckley, P.Johnson, Jamar, Newton, Bell, Meesan, Valenti

Playeres who are either too old to be considered part of our next push for top 4, or are so speculative there is no point speculating atm.

- Bail, Jetta, McNamara, Jurrah, Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald, Whelan

Analysis

- we have only 11 players who are category A and B- Almost all of those 11 are category B, who we are satisfied with as our starting 18 players, but by no means thrilled about...

- we have 9 players who are in their first 2 seasons who we are relying on to become good players. History shows us that only 5-6 will make the grade.

- we have a mammoth 12 players (16 players if you count Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald and Whelan, who will retire soon) who are mediocre player.

- If you look at some of the category B names, there are a few names there that don't make you jump up and down

Is our team destined for mediocrity unless a few of our draft picks (Martin, Watts, Morton, Grimes, Scully etc) turn into stars?

If that is the case, are we putting too much of our faith in 19yr olds who history shows us, will not all make it?

Bit harsh on Jurrah mate he might play this weekend and turn it on and you will be raving " oh how bout that Jurrah what a star". You have pinpointed players here who have not been given enough time to prove themselves.

I would move Petterd (20yo, 20 games), Buckley (22yo, 21games) and Meesen (22yo, 6 games) into players Melbourne is relying on becoming category A or B.

Pettard has shown promise up forward with limited supply, has shown in other games he can play defence or midfield as well.

Buckley has had a horror year of injuries, showed good potential in his previous two years. Possible missing link in midfield to break through packs?

Meesen was really good in the ruck before getting injured.

No, Jurrah has played a grand total of about 10 VFL senior games in his career, and to my knowledge hasnt been named in the best once. He was taken in the pre-season draft (so realistically about pick 80) and thus I think sylvinator has him in exactly the right category of 'Speculative'.

For mine, this is a pretty good (and not too overly optimistic as so many are) analysis of where we're at. Would've been interesting to see a similar analysis of the Hawks list 3-4 years ago.

Bit harsh on Jurrah mate he might play this weekend and turn it on and you will be raving " oh how bout that Jurrah what a star". You have pinpointed players here who have not been given enough time to prove themselves.

Hence they are in the "speculative" bracket

You've written off Petterd after how many games? At what age? With what injury interruptions?

And Jones will only ever be average?

You also missed Bate completely.

Let's try this another way, where do we need decent players over the next two years?

I've dropped due to age or form (but who knows, one or two might turns things around)...

Bruce, Robertson, McDonald, Whelan, Wheatley, Bell, Dunn, Newton

F:

Wonaeamirri Bate Maric

HF:

Sylvia Watts Green

C:

Morton Moloney Davey

HB:

Grimes Garland Blease

FB:

Cheney Warnock Frawley

Foll:

Jamar Mclean Jones

With the interchange coming from:

Johnson, Strauss, Bennell, Bartram, Martin, Rivers, Miller, Buckley, Petterd.

And then of course there's various levels of speculation on...

Meesen, Spencer, Bail, Jetta, McNamara, Jurrah.

I guess all I'm saying is, we have a football team here, a lot of it is very young, and it's frankly bizarre to be talking of 'condemned to mediocrity' when almost half of our team each given week has less than 50 games to their name with a few more barely past that.

No, Jurrah has played a grand total of about 10 VFL senior games in his career, and to my knowledge hasnt been named in the best once. He was taken in the pre-season draft (so realistically about pick 80) and thus I think sylvinator has him in exactly the right category of 'Speculative'.

For mine, this is a pretty good (and not too overly optimistic as so many are) analysis of where we're at. Would've been interesting to see a similar analysis of the Hawks list 3-4 years ago.

Jurrah may have been taken in the PSD, but that's only because he wasn't available in the national draft, where he would have been drafted had he nominated. So he might have been taking at around pick 80, but his worth is higher.

Having said that, you and sylvinator are right to have him in the speculative category. Atm Jurrah could become anything from a superstar to a 0-gamer, and, despite the hype, there's no way he'll be playing this weekend.

Jurrah may have been taken in the PSD, but that's only because he wasn't available in the national draft, where he would have been drafted had he nominated. So he might have been taking at around pick 80, but his worth is higher.

Having said that, you and sylvinator are right to have him in the speculative category. Atm Jurrah could become anything from a superstar to a 0-gamer, and, despite the hype, there's no way he'll be playing this weekend.

thats exactly what i thought about jack watts when i walked out of casey last sunday dont be surprised if the name jurrah comes up doubt it though as how many outs we going to have this week if we include robbo which i feel is a must, so 3 changes plus i doubt bailey will want that in the team environment

Hence they are in the "speculative" bracket

I think he is refering to the "Average players that are destined for mediocrity."

Players such as Jones, Meesen, Petterd, Buckley, and Batram (according to Sylvinator, who, funnily enough has Sylvia in the B category that could be A and see us become a top 4 team).

IMO Buckley could be a very good (and quick) wingman, Petterd could be a fantastic inside-outside midfielder, Jones could be what he was in 2006, Meesen could be a good tap ruckman, and Batram could be the Ling or Baker of our tilt.

Oh, and BTW, they would all be playing in positions more important than a HFF, where Sylvia would be relying on their good work to kick his three or four.

I think placing players in categories is hard work but we have only one 'star performer' in Davey. We have a lot of improvers, we have a few who have stagnated, and we have a few that have question marks.

Its pointless placing everyone in groups while we are such a poor, and young, team. For example, Maric would be a C+ at the moment but I THINK he might become an A+. So where do I put him? How do I justify him as an A?