Jamar is improving with every game. I just think we all expect him to be able to do the things Jeff did around the groumd

I just think we expect him to do something around the ground

in jamars defence, he has been putting his body into marking contests around the ground, something white hasnt done recently. i think jamar is looking better around the ground, getting more of it, but hasnt quite learnt how to use it. and im not sure if the problem is that he cant (although im not claiming he has a lasar kick on him) but perhaps he is still apprehensive about what to do with it when he gets it. the game style we have been playing involves giving hand balls off to running players, and thats what jamar does. but he does it every time, not just when it is appropriate. it will be interesting to see if this improves over the next few weeks.

i like his attack on the man. something he hasnt had at afl level until recently.

for those who have watched a bit of him for sandy, how has his disposal been and what has he done with it? kick or handball? does he get more possessions at sandy?

why, he can't kick, when he hand balls its usually a stuff up...why????????/

Because Jeff White has been soft as butter for most of the year, and Jamar appears to want it more. Besides, Jamar is a better tap ruckman than White and I actually think his kicking has improved. I think he will continue to thrive with more responsibilty.

I'd rather White than Jamar.

I prefer PJ in the ruck to both of them. I'm glad White has been dropped to give us a chance to rebuild the ruck stocks, but think PJ should be spending more time on the ball than he has in the past 3 weeks. It's nice that DB has put his faith behind Jamar over the last month, and he's benefitted from it. Johnson would gain just as much confidence from a stint spent playing the lead role in the ruck, and considering his upside is far greater than Jamar's, the result could be very rewarding. It's easier to teach a big guy to learn to mark and ruck, than it is to teach them basic skills, how to run to the right positions and win the footy, make good desicions and use it well... isnt it? Not to mention PJ's better natural athleticism.

Playing #2 to Jamar is an insult in many respects. Yes, Jamar is a better 'ruckman', but PJ is clearly the better footballer.

I might be alone on this one, but i still think PJ offers us much more in the ruck for the future than Jamar, and hence should be playing at least a 50:50 rucking role now, rather than relieving Jamar off the bench and resting in the pocket. At the moment they're probably rucking at a 65:35 ratio (could be a ploy to raise Jamar's trade value perhaps?), with PJ spending more time up forward, but IMO PJ really needs more time developing his rucking this year, before we draft a Naitanui or R. Warnock and start developing them.

With Newton back in and Miller playing closer to home, and Sylvia and Bate occasionally getting the odd bag of 3 or 4, we don't need PJ in the forward line as much as we did a few weeks ago when he played well there against Sydney.

What impresses (and surprises - you'd think you notice a 200cm guy laying a tackle) is that Jamar has actually been laying a steady flow of tackles all year.

I'm not surprised - he often follows up the ruck work by laying tackles etc. It's the stuff he does (or doesn't do) when the ball's in motion that's the worry.

in jamars defence, he has been putting his body into marking contests around the ground, something white hasnt done recently. i think jamar is looking better around the ground, getting more of it, but hasnt quite learnt how to use it. and im not sure if the problem is that he cant (although im not claiming he has a lasar kick on him) but perhaps he is still apprehensive about what to do with it when he gets it.

He's improved around the ground, but it's baby steps.

Whenever he takes a mark he wants to give it off by hand, regardless of whether he needs to wait an eternity for someone to present a handball receive option.

It looks like he lacks footy nous - doesn't want to make a decision. However, perhaps it's partly a confidence issue (that might be linked to shonky skills).

the game style we have been playing involves giving hand balls off to running players, and thats what jamar does. but he does it every time, not just when it is appropriate. it will be interesting to see if this improves over the next few weeks.

I think Jamar's caught the handball compulsion from Miller, who's now recovered and can take a mark, turn around, and wheel on to his right with ease.

With Newton back in and Miller playing closer to home, and Sylvia and Bate occasionally getting the odd bag of 3 or 4, we don't need PJ in the forward line as much as we did a few weeks ago when he played well there against Sydney.

Barring the Sylvia and Bate rose-coloured glasses part, I agree

Barring the Sylvia and Bate rose-coloured glasses part, I agree

They key word there was 'occasional'...

As the midfielders get faster and cover more territory, clearances have become far more important. One of the easiest ways to get the ball into your forward line quickly (which is the aim of the coaches) is to take the ball away from a stoppage to the one on one contests up forward. Getting the ball around the ground as a ruckman means much less to a game than you think as ruckmen are generally stationary with the ball (ie, have to stop and kick) and will have to give it off to a running midfielder if they want to move the ball quickly.

As such, Jamar is the right ruckman for us at the moment and Johnson may never be a truly effective player.

Johnson is poor in the ruck contests because he lacks the presence and aggression of a real ruckman, while Jamar is good in the ruck contests and provides good body work and presence at ground level in the stoppages. I actually really like big Jake Spencer for the same reason. It's really hard to find aggression and size in ruckmen, and Spencer has both. Johnson has size but no aggression or presence.

Whites disposals really arnt that great!!

With full respect to Jeff as he has been a magnificent servant of the club, his time is up. One of the telling things for me is how long he takes to move it on these days. He usually misses the first and best option and then relies on a 15 metre sideways or backwards kick. Let's face it, he's not part of our long term future and Jamar is doing pretty well in his absence. Play him in the last round so we can give him a fitting send off. Put Yze, Carroll, Holland and McDonald in as well. All great servants of the Daniher era. I for one would be happy to go to the footy to cheer these guys off. Then we can continue the rebuild

Is Jeff out of contract??? Or has he got a year left?

In reality, what would we get for Jeff? I would have thought 3rd round at best???

I dont think he has another year in him, so i think there is no use putting him in number 1 if Jamar can get the experience before next season.

I totally agree with what someone stated earlier, usually ruckmen are reluctant to get close to the ball let alone lay a tackle but he has been proving me wrong.

I dont know enough about his kicking to comment but if thats alright then a ruck who can get some good taps, tackle and play on the ball without the fear, and kick well sounds pretty good for me.

But hey, prove me wrong... well hopefuly not

The big Russian has impressed me of late.

He CAN kick, but lack of confidence stops him.

Leave him in #1 ruck position and say to white "thanks for the service."

The big Russian has impressed me of late.

He CAN kick, but lack of confidence stops him.

No he CAN'T! His skills have always been very shonky, and his kicking is equally bad at VFL level as it is in the big time. It's not confidence, it's skill level. There's a reason he never wants to kick it, and that's because his kicking is fundamentally flawed.

I've been impressed with him too, but mainly due to the fact that my expectations of him are VERY low.

A case of 'rose-coloured' glasses, if i've ever seen one... B)

Interesting stat from the weekend: Jamar had 20 hitouts, 20% of which (i.e. 4) were to advantage. That was the most of any of the ruckmen in the game. I think his ruckwork has improved a bit, but he is still useless around the ground.

Another interesting stat: PJ had 9 hitouts @ 33% (i.e. 3) to advantage.

Hudson had 11 @ around 10% (i.e 1) to advantage, and Minson 4 HO, 0% to advantage.

Our rucks clearly won, but we still got smashed 22 to 33 in the clearances.

Another interesting stat: PJ had 9 hitouts @ 33% (i.e. 3) to advantage.

Hudson had 11 @ around 10% (i.e 1) to advantage, and Minson 4 HO, 0% to advantage.

Our rucks clearly won, but we still got smashed 22 to 33 in the clearances.

The Doggies mids are just about the best getting about at the minute, West can't even get out there for a jog this year injuries aside.

Jamar is just finding some fitness now for the first time in his career since surgery on both ankles last summer, he's trimmed right down & is starting to grow some belief. Let him see out his contract next year & that will be the time to judge his ability going forward. For what it's worth I saw him take the ball on the wing @ Sandy once on the move, looked up & without thinking speared a left foot pass to the player on the HFFlank boundary 35 metres away hitting him forcefully laceout on the chest. It shocked us all including I think Jamar himself, He can kick I think occaisionally but I think he doubts himself & therefore struggles a bit.

Seems a confidence thing. He's not the best kick going around but I've seen him hit enough targets to think he can be a useful kick if his confidence stays up