Anyone for cricket?

[MadAsHell 4,215]

Fawad Ahmed named in the Australian ODI squad for the England tour! http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/662475.html

Well done to the man, although I must say I'm a bit suprised as I think he's much more suited to the long form of the game compared to the shorter formats as his recent stats suggest, only 2 wickets in his lat 5 ODD matches compared to 15 wickets in his last 3 FC games. His economy rate is reasonably high in the ODD game also at just over 5, although that's not overly suprising for a leg spinner. I guess the selectors probably see this as an opportunity to have a look at him at the highest level before our summer. Pitty it's not in his best format of the game...

Also congrats to Josh Hazlewood who's been named in the ODI squad. A fine young bowler in the Glenn McGrath mould. If he, Cummins & Pattinson can ever get over their injury concerns I can see those forming out trifecta of seam bowlers with Hazlewood to bowl into the breeze. And yes, I do rate Hazlewood ahead of Strac who also has a lot of talent.

[Biffen 12,947]

If the goal is to be 'great' in every position then the answer lies in how you go about it.

Do we pick a team that can be a lot more competitive now (but in all likelihood, still lose) or do we take a punt on youth. We have no hesitation doing it with the bowlers ... Cummins debuted at 18, Pattinson 21, Starc 21 ... none of those 3 were dominating at Shield level when they were picked for their country. They certainly showed a bit of promise though and if they can overcome fitness issues, they are definitely the future.

We could say the same thing about our batsmen. Maddinson, Burns, Silk, Doolan (27) and 1 or 2 others show a bit of promise but aren't setting the world on fire. Not all of them are going to make it if they are tried, but 1 or 2 might make it. And if 1 or 2 come through you've got a player or 2 that plays for 10-12 years.

Smith, Hughes and Khawaja have been tried and they might still be persevered with. Otherwise, they go back to Shield level and hopefully get lots of runs and force their way back in. It's not the end when a young player gets dropped ... nor should it ever be. Martyn, Langer, Hayden and a number of others came back.

I'd introduce one new young batsmen for the 1st Test in Brisbane (batting at no.5 or no.6) If the selectors want to be daring they might pick 2. Or maybe another young batsman can be introduced later in the series (in preparation for the South African tour to follow)

We have to start building for the future.

I think the answer for Australia for the next few years is older batsmen/younger bowlers. We should persist with Smith,khawaja,Rogers ,Clarke and Warner and even Cowan.Hughes and Watson need to sought out technical issues.Haddin should make way for Jumping Jeremy Howes cousin.The spinner issue will go on for while.I would love to see Agar develop his bowling along with Smith who never gets much of a roll?If these guys can have success we wont need Lyon.Our pace bowling spots are easy to fillcurrently .Harris should play if fit as should Pattinson.Bird,Starc,Cummins are all worthy of test selection

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fawad Ahmed named in the Australian ODI squad for the England tour! http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/662475.html

Well done to the man, although I must say I'm a bit suprised as I think he's much more suited to the long form of the game compared to the shorter formats as his recent stats suggest, only 2 wickets in his lat 5 ODD matches compared to 15 wickets in his last 3 FC games. His economy rate is reasonably high in the ODD game also at just over 5, although that's not overly suprising for a leg spinner. I guess the selectors probably see this as an opportunity to have a look at him at the highest level before our summer. Pitty it's not in his best format of the game...

Also congrats to Josh Hazlewood who's been named in the ODI squad. A fine young bowler in the Glenn McGrath mould. If he, Cummins & Pattinson can ever get over their injury concerns I can see those forming out trifecta of seam bowlers with Hazlewood to bowl into the breeze. And yes, I do rate Hazlewood ahead of Strac who also has a lot of talent.

Closest chance to see what he is like in the big time. It would be bizarre that if Australia takes 2 spinners to the Oval that Lyons and Agar are not it.

Well done to Hazlewood who has fought back from serious injury. I was thinking our stocks were tested with Cummins, Pattinson and Hazlewood on the injury list.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

Link to poll about who people would like to see in the Test Team for the GABBA test.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34763-who-would-you-like-to-see-at-3-5-6-7/

[titan_uranus 25,044]

And finally I'd leave Haddin out as he hasn't really delivered. He's made 2 50's in 8 innings and while his keepings been ok I wouldn't say it's been anything phenominal. And he was very ordinary at Lords.

Sorry, that's total crap and completely unfair on Haddin. His keeping has been superb. Hasn't dropped a thing and has made some tough chances look easy. Wade's keeping is abhorrent by Haddin's standards, and as much as I love Wade's batting, he's nowhere near good enough as a keeper. Specialist batsman or nothing for Wade.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sorry, that's total crap and completely unfair on Haddin. His keeping has been superb. Hasn't dropped a thing and has made some tough chances look easy. Wade's keeping is abhorrent by Haddin's standards, and as much as I love Wade's batting, he's nowhere near good enough as a keeper. Specialist batsman or nothing for Wade.

Agree. I cant understand the lack of love for Haddin. Been good with bat and ball. Provides leadership assistance that Clarke has lacked with the retirement of Ponting and Hussey.

In a tough series he has average 25 with the bat and played a couple of critical knocks. His keeping has been generally very good and took a ripper leg side catch in the last Test. 25 catches in the series thus far and I cant remember him dropping many.

Clearly changes need to be made by the GABBA test but they are necessary here.

Wade is not good enough to make it as a bat in Tests. Then again you could say the same for Hughes, Khawaja etc.

[Macca 17,034]

I think the answer for Australia for the next few years is older batsmen/younger bowlers. We should persist with Smith,khawaja,Rogers ,Clarke and Warner and even Cowan.Hughes and Watson need to sought out technical issues.Haddin should make way for Jumping Jeremy Howes cousin.The spinner issue will go on for while.I would love to see Agar develop his bowling along with Smith who never gets much of a roll?If these guys can have success we wont need Lyon.Our pace bowling spots are easy to fillcurrently .Harris should play if fit as should Pattinson.Bird,Starc,Cummins are all worthy of test selectio

Any one of Maddinson, Burns, Silk or 1 or 2 others could eventually 'make it' if they're given a chance. We might have to try all of them to find the 'one'. Or more than one might make it. Traditionally, our best batsmen have been picked when they were aged 21-23. However, I'd favour any new batsman starting off down the order so as to ease that player into Test cricket. It's another tradition that we've gone away from a bit.

If we cast an eye to the 2015 Ashes campaign (In England) then we'll need to start getting a decent batting order together. We've lost 8 of our last 9 Tests against quality opposition and to a large extent, it's been our batting that has let us down.

Hate predicting a loss in any series but I'm struggling to find enough reasons as to how we could possibly win back the Ashes in Australia in a few months. We'd most probably have to win 3 of the 5 Tests. Big big ask. May as well plan for the future if that's the likely outcome (a lost series)

If we lose that 1st Test in Brisbane but at the same time give 1 or 2 new blokes a go, it then becomes less painful. Of course, we can win that 1st Test as well - but we'd need to improve a lot (in a hurry) Are any 6 of the current 8 batsmen in England capable of collectively making enough runs to help pull off a win first up in Brisbane? The odds are against it right now.

I don't see anywhere near the same level of issues with our fast bowlers, spin bowlers and our potential keepers. In fact, we're looking quite good in those areas with a number of positive options.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Macca

[MadAsHell 4,215]

Sorry, that's total crap and completely unfair on Haddin. His keeping has been superb. Hasn't dropped a thing and has made some tough chances look easy. Wade's keeping is abhorrent by Haddin's standards, and as much as I love Wade's batting, he's nowhere near good enough as a keeper. Specialist batsman or nothing for Wade.

While his keeping has improved since the time he was dropped after our home series v India a couple of years ago, his work with the gloves still has some question marks on it for me. In between some of those great catches he lets a lot of byes go as we saw at Lords.

As for his work with the bat he's averaging under 30 for the series and outside those two 50's he hasn't done anything with the bat and has been one of the middle wickets to fall in our batting collapses when we've needed players to stand up. First Innings at Trent Bridge, 2nd Innings at Durham and also lost his wicket at a crucial time in the 1st Innings at Durham when we needed him to see out the first 5 overs of the morning before England took the new ball so our tail was protected and we could have pushed for a bigger 1st Innings lead.

Haddin isn't getting any younger, his batting isn't strong enough to demand a spot and he isn't the best gloveman in the country either. While I'm keen for Wade to be given a shot for this final test, I'd be looking at Paine long term come the time of the GABBA test.

If we lose that 1st Test in Brisbane but at the same time give 1 or 2 new blokes a go, it then becomes less painful. Of course, we can win that 1st Test as well - but we'd need to improve a lot (in a hurry) Are any 6 of the current 8 batsmen in England capable of collectively making enough runs to help pull off a win first up in Brisbane? The odds are against it right now.

I don't see anywhere near the same level of issues with our fast bowlers, spin bowlers and our potential keepers. In fact, we're looking quite good in those areas with a number of positive options.

The one thing on our side is that we haven't lost a Test at the GABBA since the 1980's I think it is and England haven't won at the WACA since God knows how long. They're 2 of the first 3 tests if I believe?

If we can get some rain at Adelaide (Englands record is good there, and it's a good wicket for the offspindder, Swann) then by the time Boxing Day comes around we could be 1-0 or 2-0 up if things fall our way? That's what I'm hoping for anyway Macca.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

Very glad to see CA being pro-active in trying to lure Robson home

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/returning-robson-a-grand-plan-20130815-2rzlv.html

This guy along with Nic Maddinson & Jordan Silk could be the future of our top 3 putting an end to the disapointment of Phil Hughes and Usman Khawaja.

Here's his stats:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/272485.html

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

While his keeping has improved since the time he was dropped after our home series v India a couple of years ago, his work with the gloves still has some question marks on it for me. In between some of those great catches he lets a lot of byes go as we saw at Lords.

As for his work with the bat he's averaging under 30 for the series and outside those two 50's he hasn't done anything with the

The one thing on our side is that we haven't lost a Test at the GABBA since the 1980's I think it is and England haven't won at the WACA since God knows how long. They're 2 of the first 3 tests if I believe?.

I use to think our stellar W/L record at Lords was something on our side until I realised its means nothing of the sort.

While Tim Paine is a talented cricketer he has missed a lot of cricket. His performance with the gloves in SA has at least from the press reports has neither noteworthy or sub standard. But his batting 54 runs in 5 digs in 2nd rate has been well below the performances of an Australian No 11( but above an Australian No 3!). So I can't fathom why there is the slagging of Haddins efforts at the top level.

And he had one poor innings in Lord otherwise he has had a stellar series with 25 dismissals in 4 Tests (including one innings washed out). Has a keeper did better than that in 4 tests of an Ashes series.

Barring injury or being hit by a bus, Haddin looks like being keeper for the GABBA and on present form for the rest of series. There are serious holes in the batting and changes (possibly frequent) through home series to patch with 2nd rate options available. When a keeper is doing his job why would your force an unnecessary change at this point.

If Haddin is still the form keeper at the end of the home series then you do have to look for solutions for the future. At present the incumbent is performing and the main challenger (Paine) has no performances on the board. Now things do change over the course of the season and you must keep it monitored. But where we stand at the moment, there is not a solid or plausible case to be looking at Paine for the GABBA over Haddin. And without injury or loss of form, Paine would have to play absolutely out of his skin with gloves and bat to either overhaul Haddin or be selected as a batsman. Given the gaps at 1 to 6, that may be his best chance.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

I use to think our stellar W/L record at Lords was something on our side until I realised its means nothing of the sort.

While Tim Paine is a talented cricketer he has missed a lot of cricket. His performance with the gloves in SA has at least from the press reports has neither noteworthy or sub standard. But his batting 54 runs in 5 digs in 2nd rate has been well below the performances of an Australian No 11( but above an Australian No 3!). So I can't fathom why there is the slagging of Haddins efforts at the top level.

And he had one poor innings in Lord otherwise he has had a stellar series with 25 dismissals in 4 Tests (including one innings washed out). Has a keeper did better than that in 4 tests of an Ashes series.

Barring injury or being hit by a bus, Haddin looks like being keeper for the GABBA and on present form for the rest of series. There are serious holes in the batting and changes (possibly frequent) through home series to patch with 2nd rate options available. When a keeper is doing his job why would your force an unnecessary change at this point.

If Haddin is still the form keeper at the end of the home series then you do have to look for solutions for the future. At present the incumbent is performing and the main challenger (Paine) has no performances on the board. Now things do change over the course of the season and you must keep it monitored. But where we stand at the moment, there is not a solid or plausible case to be looking at Paine for the GABBA over Haddin. And without injury or loss of form, Paine would have to play absolutely out of his skin with gloves and bat to either overhaul Haddin or be selected as a batsman. Given the gaps at 1 to 6, that may be his best chance.

Very well put RR and I can't really argue with any of your points.

Change is needed in a few other areas before the keepers spot. I guess it will just be a case of do they look to making a sweep of changes all at once or stagger them at areas of what's needed most urgently.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

TD, I think the focus of CA should the home Ashes Series and trying to recover/achieve the best outcome possible in the short term. As you would agree there is a couple of must fixes. Certainly the batting spots 3,5 and 6 around Clarke have to corrected from the available pool on tour and best hopes in the Shield. It possible we might find a gem back home for one of the spots. Less probable is settling all 3 spots within 3-4 months. Happy to be shown to be wrong on this on the upside.

If the press is to be believed and I think there is evidence of this....they don't have confidence in Lyon and he warming the seat until Ahmed/ Agar/ someone else better comes along.

Add to that the ever present risk of fast bowler injury, there is already fair likelihood of considerable change to be competitive in the home series.

With such an unstable environment surrounding the team I would be loathe to jettison the experienced Haddin unless there is a real form and fitness issue there.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

We now have the Robson rule!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/662815.html

Great news, and it means we may get to see promising players Sam Robson, Sam Hain and the experienced Phil Jacques & Michael Hogan back playing Shield cricket which can only be a good thing for our FC comp.

Amazing really, if Robson has a decent start to the Shield season he could find himself playing for a Country he wasn't even allowed to play First Class cricket in within 3 and a half months.

[titan_uranus 25,044]

While his keeping has improved since the time he was dropped after our home series v India a couple of years ago, his work with the gloves still has some question marks on it for me. In between some of those great catches he lets a lot of byes go as we saw at Lords.

As for his work with the bat he's averaging under 30 for the series and outside those two 50's he hasn't done anything with the bat and has been one of the middle wickets to fall in our batting collapses when we've needed players to stand up. First Innings at Trent Bridge, 2nd Innings at Durham and also lost his wicket at a crucial time in the 1st Innings at Durham when we needed him to see out the first 5 overs of the morning before England took the new ball so our tail was protected and we could have pushed for a bigger 1st Innings lead.

Haddin isn't getting any younger, his batting isn't strong enough to demand a spot and he isn't the best gloveman in the country either. While I'm keen for Wade to be given a shot for this final test, I'd be looking at Paine long term come the time of the GABBA test.

I'm sorry but you're way, way off it here.

Haddin's keeping has been nearly flawless. The byes you speak of are often the product of terrible bowling from Starc or Agar or Lyon. It's this high quality keeping that means that no one else can displace him until they get better at keeping. Wade is a better batsman, we all know that. Paine is probably a better batsman too. But Wade's keeping whilst he was the Test keeper was disastrous (dropping du Plessis at Adelaide, anyone? That's just one example of many, though). We can't afford to have a keeper dropping catches on a regular basis, runs or no runs.

Prior's not making runs for England but they're doing just fine - keeper runs are important, sure, but not the be all and end all of a team. If your top 6 make runs, the keeper's primary job becomes keeping. Haddin's doing his job fine, right now, though clearly we'd all like to see him making 100s.

Haddin is the best gloveman in Australia right now. Paine is getting there, but he needs to continue to find consistent form with both gloves and bat on his way back from injury. Wade is way, way off it.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

Faulkner to debut and Watson to bat at 3 as the batting reshuffling continues!

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/663717.html

Looks like Khawaja, Hughes and Cowan will be out of the XI for some time if Watson has scored a role as a specialist batsman ahead of them given his current form. Probably a good thing. You'd think this test will be last chance for both Watson & Smith to impress.

I'm looking forward to watching Faulkner play, I have high hopes for this guy. If he and Haddin can get a combined batting average of around 70-75, then they could hold down the number 6 and 7 slots. If not we'll be a batsman short and a hard call will need to be made on one of them at some point. He's a very good bowler though which will be a real plus!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We're two batsmen short.

We dropped an out of form batsmen for an untried all rounder who bats at 7.

We have elevated an out of form all rounder to No 3 ( for his batting only)who can't be justified either for his batting or bowling ATM.

I don't like having to bat Haddin at 6. Capable at 7 but not a number 6 batsman.

The other option would have been to replace Khawaja with Hughes. And that would have been dumb.

But like often happens I am expecting most of the runs to come from the lower order. Oh well!

[jazza 1,323]

page 71 herald sun Tuesday august 20

quotes by the most uneducated person from Australian cricket

mickey Arthur

quote/Arthur said a lack of leadership in the team

quote/so we were putting in these definite guidelines because we had no leaders there

interesting quotes from somebody who wouldn't know

anyway im glad to have starc back

enjoy the 5th everyone

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

page 71 herald sun Tuesday august 20quotes by the most uneducated person from Australian cricketmickey Arthurquote/Arthur said a lack of leadership in the teamquote/so we were putting in these definite guidelines because we had no leaders thereinteresting quotes from somebody who wouldn't know

And misquoted out of context and misrepresented by someone who clearly doesn't know and should know better.

Arthur's comments were with respect to the vacuum created by the departure of senior players Ponting and Hussey in a short space of time coupled with the lack of leadership of senior players like Shane Watson and the huge egos of younger players who earn exorbitant money through IPL.

He also commented on his faltered relationship with Watson at the end of his tenure. It's not a good sign of a coach when that happens and is not a good reflection on Watson, an underperforming prima donna.

It's worthwhile considering Watson's behaviour as senior player and the leadership and public behaviours of senior players like Ponting and Hussey. It's a chalk and cheese comparison at best.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Rhino Richards

[Macca 17,034]

Batting order looks a little shaky.

Nice to see Faulkner get a chance - with Cummins out for an extended time and with Pattinson not assured of being fit for the summer we'll need some depth in our bowling. Was surprised to see James' 1st class bowling average was under 23 and he bats at 30 - not too shabby. I like his competitiveness and combative attitude.

Not sure Haddin batting at no.6 will last any longer than this Test but you never know. It would be a big departure from how things have normally been done if it is persisted with.

The 3rd seamers spot is up for grabs and Faulkner gets his chance here. Starc and Bird are his competitors for the spot and if he has a good game, he could claim that 3rd spot.

Alternatively, if Faulkner could bat at an average of 35 and bowl at an average of 30 odd then he might be able to hold down the no.6 spot. Time will tell and from all accounts, he's going to bat at no.7 in this Test - wish him all the best and I hope he has a good debut.

[titan_uranus 25,044]

Once again Australia goes for the all-rounder to solve our problems. If you can't bat in the top 6, you're not good enough. So, Faulkner's a bowler. So, we're playing too many bowlers.

Batting the keeper at 6 is a terrible idea, especially given Haddin's batting form is weak at best.

Starc's also back. We gave Bird one go. We keep moving Starc in and out. It's insane.

Clarke says it's not a charity side, that you get dropped if you don't perform. Yet Watson keeps his spot, and now gets to bat at 3 instead of 6.

Management of this team is just awful.

[45HG 1,559]

...

Saved me a post... well... you know!

Spot on.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Once again Australia goes for the all-rounder to solve our problems. If you can't bat in the top 6, you're not good enough. So, Faulkner's a bowler. So, we're playing too many bowlers.

Batting the keeper at 6 is a terrible idea, especially given Haddin's batting form is weak at best.

Starc's also back. We gave Bird one go. We keep moving Starc in and out. It's insane.

Clarke says it's not a charity side, that you get dropped if you don't perform. Yet Watson keeps his spot, and now gets to bat at 3 instead of 6.

Management of this team is just awful.

Agree. 5 seamers and its dry Oval wicket where we bowl last on it.

At least we won the toss.

I am not disappointed Starc is in. Bird was loose in the 2nd dig of the last test. Starc should not have been dropped in the first place.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Batting order looks a little shaky.

Nice to see Faulkner get a chance - with Cummins out for an extended time

The 3rd seamers spot is up for grabs and Faulkner gets his chance here. Starc and Bird are his competitors for the spot and if he has a good game, he could claim that 3rd spot.

Alternatively, if Faulkner could bat at an average of 35 and bowl at an average of 30 odd then he might be able to hold down the no.6 spot. Time will tell and from all accounts, he's going to bat at no.7 in this Test - wish him all the best and I hope he has a good debut.

Funny, I thought Siddle has the 3rd seamers spot?????

Starc is a strike bowler.

Faulkner is there to fill the all rounders spot that Watson failed to do. He must succeed with both bat and ball. It's not good enough to succeed with one or the other.

IMO Bird is in competition with Harris and he is not up to that class yet. Playing Siddle, Bird and Harris together has a sameness to it.

[Macca 17,034]

Funny, I thought Siddle has the 3rd seamers spot?????

Starc is a strike bowler.

Faulkner is there to fill the all rounders spot that Watson failed to do. He must succeed with both bat and ball. It's not good enough to succeed with one or the other.

IMO Bird is in competition with Harris and he is not up to that class yet. Playing Siddle, Bird and Harris together has a sameness to it.

I meant it more so that Siddle and Harris are the only real certainties to start and there's one spot open - the 3rd one.

Starc is in front of everyone else right now but he's no world beater. Starc has been known to bowl at mid 140's but for some unknown reason he's dropped a yard or 2 of pace. He's had a few injury issues so that might be the problem.

I'd like to see him bowl with a bit more venom - the selectors might feel the same or maybe they're just trying to manage him well. Seems odd that he only ever seems to play one Test at a time.

Warner gone. 4 down and we're into the tail

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

At this stage 1-41 where it seems there little for the seamer and Swann within the 1st 20 overs is spinning the ball and Australia has 5 seamers and 1 front line spinner. England have chosen two. Hope it does not bite us bad.