Anyone for cricket?

[grazman 6,737]

Unfortunately I'm holidaying in QLD at the moment and there's no channel 9 reception where I'm staying... bummer. I think Brett Lee's in trouble. He's taken 300 test wickets, but his best is only 5 for... (though granted for 200 of those wickets he had some handy competition at the other end) He just hasn't seemed to trouble batsmen for a while. I'm not a huge rap for Johnson, I like that he can bowl long spells at a consistently high pace, I just hate the negative tactics of continually bowling a foot outside off stump to a 7/2 field. That said most of his wickets yesterday were achieved by getting the batsmen to play (though Kallis like half of all Johnson's victims will be kicking themselves for playing something they would normally leave alone).

Gavin Robertson made a good point about Kreja yesterday, he's a very attacking offspinner - which is a rarity in Australia, and I like his attitude, but he has to learn how to dry up the runs.

Hayden won't or shouldn't be dropped. His heroics speak for themselves - he's an Australian cricketing legend. He's deserved the chance to fall on his sword.

Anyone that reckons Michael Bevan should have had more test opportunities is kidding themselves... the guy couldn't play a short ball to save himself.

[titan_uranus 23,143]

Awesome Awesome Awesome.

After looking set and had they lasted the next half hour then SA were in the box seat at 3/260+.

On a good batting pitch late in the day with a hint of reverse swing, Mitchell Johnson put together one of the most devastating spells of old ball swing bowling at 140+kph. Swung the Test match and made his mark on the series

If the signs were there before, then there in big lights....This guy is something special and the big thing in quick bowling.

Great stuff

Absolutely friggin fantastic bowling. The way he set up Morne Morkel, two consecutive bouncers, then, when everyone expected a full, 150 km/h + yorker, he gets the slower ball which he duly messes up. Brilliant. 8/250 odd is not good for Sth A. Provided we finish the job without conceding too many, then we'll be batting from 0/100 odd. That's the kind of situation that Hayden needs.

Credit also to Krejza. Bowling Amla (who I consider the best batsman out of the two teams, and is a delight to watch) like he did was superb. If he can tame the long-hops then we might have a future spinner.

Australia's tail must surely be the best in the world. No bunnies at all.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

All hail the Orical!

Interesting to note though that the damage was done with the old ball,

so for mine still may not be the best for us to be opening the bowling!

(But then again I'm right handed and a victorian!) so might be a bit biased!

Most definitely

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Unfortunately I'm holidaying in QLD at the moment and there's no channel 9 reception where I'm staying... bummer. I think Brett Lee's in trouble. He's taken 300 test wickets, but his best is only 5 for... (though granted for 200 of those wickets he had some handy competition at the other end) He just hasn't seemed to trouble batsmen for a while. I'm not a huge rap for Johnson, I like that he can bowl long spells at a consistently high pace, I just hate the negative tactics of continually bowling a foot outside off stump to a 7/2 field. That said most of his wickets yesterday were achieved by getting the batsmen to play (though Kallis like half of all Johnson's victims will be kicking themselves for playing something they would normally leave alone).

Gavin Robertson made a good point about Kreja yesterday, he's a very attacking offspinner - which is a rarity in Australia, and I like his attitude, but he has to learn how to dry up the runs.

Hayden won't or shouldn't be dropped. His heroics speak for themselves - he's an Australian cricketing legend. He's deserved the chance to fall on his sword.

Anyone that reckons Michael Bevan should have had more test opportunities is kidding themselves... the guy couldn't play a short ball to save himself.

Johnson's main weapon is move the ball away (conventionally and old ball) away from the right hander. He does not naturally bring it back in. If he could get that going he could even more potent. McKenzie, Kallis will be cursing their judgement. There is a huge monkey on a couple of the backs of the SA bats now.

Ponting should be congratulated for making the change to bring Johnson on.

I agree on Krezja and Hayden. Langer and Hogg on ABC radio thought Krezja bowled a little short and flat in the afternoon session. And yes he does not dry the runs. However, he was a ball magnet in the field.

Michael Bevan....Enough said.

[H_T 2,941]

Hayden got 4 runs. Out, bat was no where near it.

[Skipper3 7]

Johnson's main weapon is move the ball away (conventionally and old ball) away from the right hander. He does not naturally bring it back in. If he could get that going he could even more potent.

Johnson does bring the old ball back into the R/H batsmen with some reverse swing. Give credit where credit is due people - he just took 8 wicketss in one innings!

Grazman - As for the earlier statement regarding his "negative" tactics - been a left armer he has the angle to put the ball in the drive area for the batsmen, he does this and with the ball doing a bit of the deck & through the air brings down a batsman. That isnt neagtive - just smart play by Johnson & Ponting. If Johnson picthed the ball straighter it would be too easy for the batsmen to turn the ball through the leg side for runs & any good test level batsmen worth his salt will do that all day if given the chance.

Like batting, bowling is about playing to your stregth. Johnson's strentghs are; good pace all day, movemnet across the R/H'er and when the old ball is reversing - bringing it back into the batsmen.

[titan_uranus 23,143]

Well, today's play is going to set up the rest of the series. If Kallis and De Villiers survive the first hour, then that might be enough for Sth Africa. We need early wickets. 187 runs is more than gettable.

Krejza was worse yesterday than he was on Day 2. A bit worrying. He's gotta work on taming the full tosses and short ones.

If Siddle doesn't improve today I'm not sure if we'll see him on Boxing Day. Watson might get a call up.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

WANTED: AUSTRALIAN CRICKET TEAM THAT CAN TAKE 20 WICKETS OVER 5 DAYS

Well done SA you have exposed the now major flaws in the Australian line up.

Congratulations to Mitchell Johnson and Brad Haddin. Johnson is head and shoulders above the other bowlers and has been our strike bowler for the past 3 series. Haddin is really stepping up to the plate.

But hell, its disturbing that three bowlers only took three wickets over the whole Test.

While Lee bowled a good spell on the 4th day, he is really fodder for an inform batsman. I still think he has the series to turn things around but he does not want another 1-132 again. He needs wickets in Melbourne otherwise he is in trouble.

Australia was comprehensively flogged yesterday and our attack (sans Johnsons) was pedestrian. A strike bowler that does not strike is a liability. Unfortunately past record does not count for much if you cant get the wickets.

I am still not beyond thinking that Krejza got the planets lined up on debut. A captain just cant implement a strategy when a bowlers leaks at 4 runs per over.

Australia were always in trouble setting South Africa less than 450 in the fourth innings. And to think Australia batted too long in the 2005 Perth Test when they set SA 491 to win. Fancy that.

While negating responsibility for the outcome where it sits, the ACB should take the Perth test away from the WACA if they continue to serve up questionable wickets that overly favour the batsman and blunt the bowlers. People should forget about Perth being a fast bowlers wicket. It has not been that for 20 years.

[montasaurus 0]

Are we reading too much into this. Is it the bowlers who could not take wickets on a flat track the problem or the upper order who get starts and don't go on with it! That's been the issue for mine since the start of the indian tour. Clarke, Hayden, Ponting, Symonds all giving their wickets away so far this summer. Symonds especially, if he is not being used a bowler then should not be in the side. His batting is just not up to it, watson is just as good with the bat in this form of the game and can bowl! Clarke - Is by far the most frustrating batsman to watch the way he gives his wicket away when he is set. ARROGANCE is a word that comes to mind that explains the current side. No need to make big changes they just need to work a bit harder. This test should have been a draw and if johnson had not bowled that incredable spell probably would have ended up that way.

I think it is likely Siddle out watson in. But I would love to see siddle be given a chance on his home track. Ideally hayden out. Maybe siddle out for Dirky! See if he can put a couple of the SA batsmen into the alfred!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Are we reading too much into this. Is it the bowlers who could not take wickets on a flat track the problem or the upper order who get starts and don't go on with it!

No just missing the point.

You need 20 wickets to win a Test. We took 14 wickets with one bowler taking 11 wickets. Despite the issues with the batting, we still set them 414 to win. A hard chase by historical standards. It proved not so for a batting line up that put its head down.

That's been the issue for mine since the start of the indian tour. Clarke, Hayden, Ponting, Symonds all giving their wickets away so far this summer. Symonds especially, if he is not being used a bowler then should not be in the side. His batting is just not up to it, watson is just as good with the bat in this form of the game and can bowl!

Symonds made 57 and 37 in the last Test and has averaged 60 in the over the past 3 years. His batting is up to it. But we do need more from him. Watson is no where near Symonds calibre with the bat and for bowling think Brett Lee's current penetration less 5 to 10kms. Watson is not good enough at either skill and Australia cant carry nice to have

Clarke - Is by far the most frustrating batsman to watch the way he gives his wicket away when he is set. ARROGANCE is a word that comes to mind that explains the current side. No need to make big changes they just need to work a bit harder. This test should have been a draw and if johnson had not bowled that incredable spell probably would have ended up that way.

Agree about Clarke. I dont think this team suffers from "arrogance". It suffers from not being good enough. I agree that the batting needs to work harder and they wont make big changes yet.

I think the issue with the batting was that we won the toss and at no time were we able to set the standard of the game. We should have got 400+ in the first dig to close the SAs out. A lead of 150+ in the first innings was crucial to have them under the hammer. At no time in the Test did we have our foot squarely on their necks.

I think it is likely Siddle out watson in. But I would love to see siddle be given a chance on his home track. Ideally hayden out. Maybe siddle out for Dirky! See if he can put a couple of the SA batsmen into the alfred!

Gee you have turned on Siddle, your new ball choice.

I think they will drop Siddle. I think they will go for Hilfenhaus or Bollinger. Hayden will survive just. But if we lose the Melbourne Test and Hayden fails then he wont see Sydney.

[montasaurus 0]

Gee you have turned on Siddle, your new ball choice.

What I would like and what I think will happen are 2 different outcomes. Not sure if it was a team plan or his own but he bowled too short all test. I still rate him as a potential opener as he has an ability to move the ball both ways off the seam but as you have correctly pointed out you need to take 20 wickets to win a game and siddle too NIL. Therefore if the axe is coming his name would have to be ahead of any other bowler at this stage unless Krejza is to replaced but I doubt it. The only hope for siddle is that lee did nothing also and I don't think anyone else have put their hands up at domestic level enough.

What ever happened to a med bowler to break a partnership on a dead track? is symonds arm not up to bowling after his last injury?

Hayden will survive just. But if we lose the Melbourne Test and Hayden fails then he wont see Sydney.

The smartest thing Hayden to do is announce his retirement at the end of the series now! that would almost guarrantee him a ticket to melb and syd on a farwell tour.

I think he is actually a little lucky to get out the way he did (he now has sympathy on the selection issue). Had have he been out to his own devices the next over or 2 it could have been the end for him, but then again it could have also been a ton!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What I would like and what I think will happen are 2 different outcomes. Not sure if it was a team plan or his own but he bowled too short all test. I still rate him as a potential opener as he has an ability to move the ball both ways off the seam but as you have correctly pointed out you need to take 20 wickets to win a game and siddle too NIL. Therefore if the axe is coming his name would have to be ahead of any other bowler at this stage unless Krejza is to replaced but I doubt it. The only hope for siddle is that lee did nothing also and I don't think anyone else have put their hands up at domestic level enough.

Siddle's short of a length bowling was in breach of the team plan. He did bowl too short all test. Siddle is young and will have

further opportunities.

What ever happened to a med bowler to break a partnership on a dead track? is symonds arm not up to bowling after his last injury?

Symonds med pace relies on swing to take wickets. There was no sideways swing so I am not sure what he offers there. Given we have a full time off spinner I am not sure what bowling more off spin would have done. Ponting backed Krejza and that's fine. Krejza is not up to scratch at the moment and even more trounbling is there is no other real contenders. Krejza bats better than Hussey at the moment.

The smartest thing Hayden to do is announce his retirement at the end of the series now! that would almost guarrantee him a ticket to melb and syd on a farwell tour.

I think he is actually a little lucky to get out the way he did (he now has sympathy on the selection issue). Had have he been out to his own devices the next over or 2 it could have been the end for him, but then again it could have also been a ton!

Hayden may not survive another Test after Melb. His lose of form is real blow to Australia as he has set the tempo of the innings for us for so long. I dont think his dismissal is one thing or the other. He was in trouble at any point with Steyn and the new ball. His first innings dismissal was poor.

[jacey 333]

Unfortunately past record does not count for much if you cant get the wickets.

Drop Hayden. No player gets the right to call when it is time. If you aren't getting it done, the decision should be made for you.

Unfortunately past record do not count for much if you can't score runs.

Drop Symonds and put in Watson. Watson does the hard yards, bends his back in India just for the petulant Symonds to play at home.

[Nasher 33,246]

I really hope Hilfy gets a look in. He was very disappointing last season when there were spots ripe for the taking. He's now in very good form, bowling with monotonous economy and taking wickets.

[Rogue 585]

I agree with Nasher.

I mentioned Hilfenhaus earlier in this thread and hope he gets a look-in.

He could be a handful in South Africa and England, our upcoming tours.

Bollinger'd feel unlucky though.

Australia were always in trouble setting South Africa less than 450 in the fourth innings. And to think Australia batted too long in the 2005 Perth Test when they set SA 491 to win. Fancy that.

Hysterical.

Pretty sure a) Australia were far better than they are now and B) South Africa are far better now than they were then.

[H_T 2,941]

WANTED: AUSTRALIAN CRICKET TEAM THAT CAN TAKE 20 WICKETS OVER 5 DAYS

Yes Yes Yes. And yet Ricky 'initially' put it down to failure of the top order in the presentation after the match...

While negating responsibility for the outcome where it sits, the ACB should take the Perth test away from the WACA if they continue to serve up questionable wickets that overly favour the batsman and blunt the bowlers. People should forget about Perth being a fast bowlers wicket. It has not been that for 20 years.

Totally agree with that RR. It also now represents a bit of a hunting ground for opposition international sides, or a bogey ground for the Aussies, which ever way you look at it of recent times. Cricket Aust. may have to play the minnows at Perth and the bigger fixtures to Adelaide.

I think the likes of Siddle and Krezja need further experience, the easy option would be to drop them and use them as scapegoats. Whilst the likes of Hayden and Lee 'supposedly' still have credits and play for marketing reasons?

Whilst the likes of Hayden & Lee are struggling and are not getting the runs & wickets they wish for, I think CA and the selectors will retain them for the Boxing Day test and put their paith in them to bounce back. Geez, they're lucky.

[montasaurus 0]

Totally agree with that RR. It also now represents a bit of a hunting ground for opposition international sides, or a bogey ground for the Aussies, which ever way you look at it of recent times. Cricket Aust. may have to play the minnows at Perth and the bigger fixtures to Adelaide.

Take the game side of it away, the crowds for SAT/SUN were nothing short of a disgrace when you had the top 2 sides playing off in a game that could have gone either way. Lift your game WA

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hysterical.

Pretty sure a) Australia were far better than they are now and B) South Africa are far better now than they were now.

Pretty sure it was same deadpan wicket that reduces most bowling attacks to mediocre and can batting sides elevate batting sides above their true standard.

Yes Yes Yes. And yet Ricky 'initially' put it down to failure of the top order in the presentation after the match...

You are never going to get a confessional at a press conference.

Take the game side of it away, the crowds for SAT/SUN were nothing short of a disgrace when you had the top 2 sides playing off in a game that could have gone either way. Lift your game WA

Agree. Perth has always been a problem. The standard of the wickets dont help either.

[H_T 2,941]

Dougy Bollinger could get a look in for Siddle.

[Rogue 585]

Dougy Bollinger could get a look in for Siddle.

Considering he and Siddle went to India, and Bollinger and Hilfenhaus went on the WI tour, you're probably right

[montasaurus 0]

What are the Aust selectors on???????????

This selection may force me to not even watch any of this game! What a joke I could bowl underarm to the KIWIs and not go for nearly 10 an over!

O M R W R/O

[Current Bowler] Hauritz, NM 3.0 0 29 0 9.67

Oh - No here we go again, but this time its against decent cricketers.........

[QueenC 74]

Great read......

On the first day of Christmas, foxsports.com.au gave to Ricky.....

[grazman 6,737]

Yesterday would have to go down as one of Australia's worst days in a test of the last twenty years. I blame not only the selectors, but in some measure Ponting as well who obviously has some degree of influence. I love him as a batsman, but as a captain he's about as imaginative as the vegetarian alternative at a steak house. The problem obviously is in picking players that are basically not fit and not in form. Nothing has been done to enhance Brett Lee's career or Australia's chances of winning by hoping he'd last in this test and magically find form. Andrew Symonds was a gamble, both because of his knee and that he bats like a millionaire, the only way he'll ever make a big score is if the opposition keep grassing the chances that he regularly provides. Watson unfortunately doesn't make runs and is always injured anyway. I'd rather pick an in-form batsman.

Michael Hussey, along with Gilly is one of my favourite cricketers of all time, but his rich vein of form has run out, we need him firing for the Ashes, which means he needs to make runs, which means he needs to be dropped. As for Hayden, It's all well and good for him to want to make a decision at the end of the series as to his future, but the future for Australia is now, he either intends to go on (in which case he's gone unless he makes runs today) or he wants to retire (in which case he gets a farewell test).

[montasaurus 0]

Yesterday would have to go down as one of Australia's worst days in a test of the last twenty years. I blame not only the selectors, but in some measure Ponting as well who obviously has some degree of influence. I love him as a batsman, but as a captain he's about as imaginative as the vegetarian alternative at a steak house. The problem obviously is in picking players that are basically not fit and not in form. Nothing has been done to enhance Brett Lee's career or Australia's chances of winning by hoping he'd last in this test and magically find form. Andrew Symonds was a gamble, both because of his knee and that he bats like a millionaire, the only way he'll ever make a big score is if the opposition keep grassing the chances that he regularly provides. Watson unfortunately doesn't make runs and is always injured anyway. I'd rather pick an in-form batsman.

Michael Hussey, along with Gilly is one of my favourite cricketers of all time, but his rich vein of form has run out, we need him firing for the Ashes, which means he needs to make runs, which means he needs to be dropped. As for Hayden, It's all well and good for him to want to make a decision at the end of the series as to his future, but the future for Australia is now, he either intends to go on (in which case he's gone unless he makes runs today) or he wants to retire (in which case he gets a farewell test).

Well, I'm going to do the hard thing here and back ponting. A lot of the reasons are explained in the above already. For me its the experienced players around him not his captancy that is the issue.

SK - 8/10 (6) since india (batted well but yet to make a big score)

MH - 1/10 (8) since india, unlikely to see sydney

RP - 5/10 (10) struggled since india

MC - 6/10 (8) given his wicket away too often since india, showed a bit on the 1st day MCG

AS - 2/10 (7) as above, no impact with ball

MH - 2/10 (9) out of sorts

BH - 7/10 (5) serviceable

BL - 1/10 (8) has struggled, maybe injured since before india?

MJ - 6/10 (6) one great spell and has not had the impact outside of this

NH - 3/10 (4) taken a few but no real impact

PS - 3/10 (4) no impact in perth but better in melbourne.

Therefore a total of 44/10 vs 75/10 on paper. Katich and haddin have been the only good news out of this summer. So by my score we are at 70% of playing strength. From this you would suggest it is time to turn 2-3 players over. Brett lee's forced injury will be 1, so I think it is likely if we don't win this test another player could be in trouble. For me take your pick from the 2 below.

Surely todays innings should not make any difference to hayden unless he makes a big 100 in a winning side. Therefore no hayden for sydney. I would like to see klinger in for no other reason then runs on the board. Could open or bat at 5 giving hussey a chance at opening.

Symonds - Out for watson in (I think unlikely to happen, more likely to replace injured lee but if lee was fit this should have happened for sydney)

Lee - Replaced by either Watson, Hilfenhaus or Bollinger. but maybe go for something a little different - a wrist spining leggie! wont happen though

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yesterday would have to go down as one of Australia's worst days in a test of the last twenty years. I blame not only the selectors, but in some measure Ponting as well who obviously has some degree of influence. I love him as a batsman, but as a captain he's about as imaginative as the vegetarian alternative at a steak house. The problem obviously is in picking players that are basically not fit and not in form. Nothing has been done to enhance Brett Lee's career or Australia's chances of winning by hoping he'd last in this test and magically find form. Andrew Symonds was a gamble, both because of his knee and that he bats like a millionaire, the only way he'll ever make a big score is if the opposition keep grassing the chances that he regularly provides. Watson unfortunately doesn't make runs and is always injured anyway. I'd rather pick an in-form batsman.

Michael Hussey, along with Gilly is one of my favourite cricketers of all time, but his rich vein of form has run out, we need him firing for the Ashes, which means he needs to make runs, which means he needs to be dropped. As for Hayden, It's all well and good for him to want to make a decision at the end of the series as to his future, but the future for Australia is now, he either intends to go on (in which case he's gone unless he makes runs today) or he wants to retire (in which case he gets a farewell test).

Absolutely agree.

The fifth day in Perth may have been the shot across the bow, yesterday was the direct hit. I think there are issues running from top to bottom from selectors, captaincy and players.

Twelve months ago there was some hope that the post Warne - McGrath- Langer -Gilly era could be managed successfully. Hayden, Ponting, Hussey lead the batting and Symonds was there to monster the advantage. Lee backed by Clarke bolstered the attack. Its unravelled quickly and for some sportsman quicker than they or their fans imagined.

In regard to a couple of players:

Hayden - he either makes a big score today (a big 100) and retires at Sydney or is finished after this test. Hughes/Klinger may get a look in for the Sydney test.

Lee- Stress fractures in the foot are not good and not easy to overcome. Either way he is out of the Test side. Injury makes it less severe than being dropped. I think it might be the end for Lee. Bring in the bowler the selectors believes will ultimately do well in the Ashes. Either Bollinger or Hilfenhaus. We need to get Stuart Clark back fit as soon as possible.

Symonds - Completely agree with Graz. Needed to make an impact with the bat. Gets the start then throws it away. Needs a big innings today or its over. His injury does not help either. Watson does not excite as his bowling and batting is wooden and his fitness is a real concern.

Hussey - Will probably get a Test in Sydney because they will already be changing two positions already. However, if he fails in Sydney I would select him for the SA tour.

Full marks to the efforts of Haddin, Clarke, Johnson, Katich and Siddle for stepping up under pressure. Hauritz will keep it tight but will never run through a side on the last day unless the planets line up.

Ponting is coming up to 5 years as Australian captain and I think that time is as long as anyone would want in the hot seat. Selectors should be seeking to groom a transition to Clarke within the next six to 12 months. FWIW, since McGrath Warne retired captaincy became a far far harder job.

If ever a young player wanted an opportunity to wear a baggy green cap, then now is the time to show some form.