While I agree about his handling/involvement re the Katich situation I couldn't disagree more with you Biffen.

Like him or not, Clarke will go down as one of Australia's all time great batsmen.

* He's made triple & double centuries. 28 Centuries in total.

* Batting average just shy of 50.

* Captained winning tours of South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand and the West Indies

* Captained a 5-0 Ashes whitewash victory.

* Was a member of our 2004 winning touring party of India.

* Has taken over 30 Test wickets.

He's played some great innings along the way. Made two personal favourites being his debut ton v India in Bangalore in 2004. Coming in at a difficult time with us 4/140 odd batting first on a turner. Then two great partnerships, first with Katich and then with Gilchrist on his way to 151 saw us make a big total and go on to win that series. I remember the ball turning sideways with Anil Kumble bowling round the wicket and Clarke just dancing down to hit him straight back over his head for 6. Knew he was going to be something special from then,

His other great innings IMO was his 27th ton v South Africa in the 3rd & final test of the 2014 tour in Cape Town. Series locked at 1-1 and Clarke in f form slump, he was on the end of one of the more brutal work overs I've ever witnessed by Morne Morkel. Got hit multiple times and alegedly received a fractured shoulder as a result. However he got through it and went on to make a brilliant ton and set up was was a memorable win. If you haven't witnessed it, you should!

And that's only a sample!

Him loosing the captaincy was always coming and rightly so, as sweeping changes should be made following this embarrasment! But I thought Clarke should stay on and bat at number 5 to provide some support for Smith/Warner going forward. I hope he does well at The Oval, and given the series is lost I actually hope all he, Haddin, Watson & Rogers all play (Rogers obviously will) and can bow out together with a win..

As for an XI going forward. I like the look of something like:

Cameron Bancroft

David Warner (vc)

Joe Burns

Steve Smith*

Peter Handscomb

Mitch Marsh

+Tim Ludeman

Mitchell Johnson

Mitchell Starc/James Pattinson/Pat Cummins

Peter Siddle

Nathan Lyon

*Bancroft is very young and has shown a lot of promise in the recent Shield season. He also recently made a patient 133 v India A in Chennai off about 295 balls I believe, so he can grind out an innings on difficult wickets.

*Burns I think has the right balance of attack and defence to bat at number 3. It's why I'd probably favour him to giving the nod to Khawaja.

*Handscomb I'm a big fan of. Very good player of spin and improving against pace. Was the leading run scorer in Shield cricket after the first 4 rounds until injury struck. Came back and batted well, but just not in quite the same form. Also made a 91 v India A. He can also keep, which would be handy for slecting a touring squad not having to worry about back up keepers.

*While Mitch Marsh I think should be the main all rounder, I think that number 6 spot should become somewhat rotatable if we end up playing on raging turners, and this is where I think the Big Show Glenn Maxwell could find his niche. He could become a overseas tour player only just about in India, UAE, Sri Lanka & Bangladesh. He's also a very good player of spin bowling which could be handy.

*For the keeper, I think it's time we went old school and just picked the best gloveman. After Nevill's scratchy glove skills and Haddin's drop of Root in the first test possibly being a series defining moment, I think we should just focus during this rebuilding phase of just having a keeper who takes every chance that comes his way and any runs he makes being a bonus. So this is where Ludeman comes into the picture for me.

*Siddle should come into the XI once more IMO with the retirement of Harris. His control and experience will be valuable not just for the team, but especially Johnson. I don't think Mitch could be as effective during this series as his fellow bowlers (although not as bad as the batsmen) leaked to many runs due to lack of control. This is where Siddle should come into his own.

*Final quick bowlers spot I'd give to whoever was in form/fit between Starc, Pattinson & Cummins. At the moment that would obviously be Starc.

Other players to keep an eye on would be Usman Khawaja, Nic Maddinson, Jordan Silk & Travis Head as far as batsmen go. Marcus Stoinis would be the next seam bowling all rounder I'd be looking to after Mitch Marsh. Sam Whiteman is a distant future keeper to watch, similar to Ashton Agar as a spin bowler. While the likes of Josh Hazlewood & Nathan Coulter-Nile are by no means forgotten. When Suddle's time is up Hazlewood would be an obvious replacement.

Sad series and a sad end for not just Pup, but several other Aussie players. After The Oval I don't expect to see and of Clarke, Watson, Haddin, Rogers, Voges, Shaun Marsh or Fawad Ahmed near an Aussie Test XI again.

No problem with Clark the player & batsmen & tactician, none at all.... but he should never have been the Australian test captain. as Warne's showing, he shouldn't have been as well.

poor choice of leader.

Edited August 10, 20159 yr by dee-luded

No problem with Clark the player & batsmen & tactician, none at all.... but he should never have been the Australian test captain. as Warne's showing, he shouldn't have been as well.

poor choice of leader.

LOL. Turn it up.

10 days ago when other more astute posters were suggesting an early end for Clarke you suggested that he be kept on for 12 months for Smith's succession plan. A bizarre and ridiculous suggestion given you suggest he should never have been Test captain and is a poor choice of a leader.

I further note that 18 months ago against Sth Africa when Clarke was playing a heroic innings you will still deriding his character.

You're entitled to your opinions on Clarke but on what you've shown here there is little thoughtful or coherent substance to them.

And FTR Warne never captained Australia.

One for the Ignore list.

Edited August 10, 20159 yr by Qwerty30

LOL. Turn it up.

10 days ago when other more astute posters were suggesting an early end for Clarke you suggested that he be kept on for 12 months for Smith's succession plan. A bizarre and ridiculous suggestion given you suggest he should never have been Test captain and is a poor choice of a leader.

I further note that 18 months ago against Sth Africa when Clarke was playing a heroic innings you will still deriding his character.

You're entitled to your opinions on Clarke but on what you've shown here there is little thoughtful or coherent substance to them.

And FTR Warne never captained Australia.

One for the Ignore list.

yes, that's right, because I didn't want Smith to be thrown to the wolves; as I thought in Australia, that Smith showed a little bit of immaturity. obviously you can't bring in another skipper in-between Clark & Smith.

so I had hoped that Clark would continue for 6 - 12 months, whilst Smith learned more, of how to captain... since had a taste of it, he would naturally be thinking more seriously abut it, & studying other test captains.

Clark was a great batsmen, fielder, & tactician, so was Warnie, a great tactician, bowler, & slipper.

but Clark in my mind is not a great leader, & his time has seen a lot of turmoil & poor results against the stronger test nations. I don't think he took us forward as leader, & I think we would have done better, & be in better shape, if another was chosen.

LOL. Turn it up.

10 days ago when other more astute posters were suggesting an early end for Clarke you suggested that he be kept on for 12 months for Smith's succession plan. A bizarre and ridiculous suggestion given you suggest he should never have been Test captain and is a poor choice of a leader.

I further note that 18 months ago against Sth Africa when Clarke was playing a heroic innings you will still deriding his character.

You're entitled to your opinions on Clarke but on what you've shown here there is little thoughtful or coherent substance to them.

And FTR Warne never captained Australia.

One for the Ignore list.

FTR, I have never said Warnie was a captain of Australia. you obviously cannot read when over emotional.

Re Warnie: I was saying that IMO he has shown that the decision for him to not captain Australia, was looking like the right decision, in hindsight. I wanted him to captain Australia, some years back.

ignore list, oh no, please not that, but how will I sleep at night, just knowing that 'the'querty30' isn't listening anymore

LOL. Turn it up.

10 days ago when other more astute posters were suggesting an early end for Clarke you suggested that he be kept on for 12 months for Smith's succession plan. A bizarre and ridiculous suggestion given you suggest he should never have been Test captain and is a poor choice of a leader.

I further note that 18 months ago against Sth Africa when Clarke was playing a heroic innings you will still deriding his character.

You're entitled to your opinions on Clarke but on what you've shown here there is little thoughtful or coherent substance to them.

And FTR Warne never captained Australia.

One for the Ignore list.

yes, that's right, because I didn't want Smith to be thrown to the wolves; as I thought in Australia, that Smith showed a little bit of immaturity. obviously you can't bring in another skipper in-between Clark & Smith.

so I had hoped that Clark would continue for 6 - 12 months, whilst Smith learned more, of how to captain... since had a taste of it, he would naturally be thinking more seriously abut it, & studying other test captains.

Clark was a great batsmen, fielder, & tactician, so was Warnie, a great tactician, bowler, & slipper.

but Clark in my mind, is not a great leader, & his time has seen a lot of turmoil & poor results against the stronger test nations. I don't think he took us forward as leader, & I think we would have done better, & be in better shape, if another was chosen.

i'm not alone it would seem Q30

Former coach John Buchanan joins old teammates in savage sledge on ‘divisive’ Michael Clarke captaincy

August 11, 2015 12:00am

FORMER Australian cricket coach John Buchanan believes the famous baggy green culture was eroded in the Michael Clarke captaincy era. Buchanan praised Clarke’s contribution to the game but agreed with Matthew Hayden and Andrew Symonds, that the cricketer polarised the dressingroom.

Australian legend Hayden yesterday made the stunning revelation that Clarke once threatened to hand back his baggy green cap if he was forced to field at bat-pad.

Buchanan coached Clarke at the start of his international career but Clarke did not become Test captain until four years after Buchanan quit. Buchanan feels the cherished baggy green culture that spanned back to Australia’s first Test match in 1877 was diminished under Clarke.

“If he finished games early, Michael would often leave early. I can remember guys like Hayden and Langer sitting him down in a corner and trying to get him to understand what we were trying to achieve. There were times when I felt Michael did not understand or did not want to understand.

“If Michael reads this I am sure he will say he did cherish the culture but if you asked him to define it, his definition would not be the same as the likes of Adam Gilchrist, Ponting or myself.’’

Hayden gave an incredible insight into how Clarke could be a divisive figure, telling how Simon Katich was injured in a Sydney Test and Clarke had not wanted to field at bat-pad.

“We needed someone and usually it goes to the youngest in the side,’’ Hayden told Brisbane’s Triple M Radio

“He (Clarke) said – ‘If I have to wear that, I will hand my baggy green back.’’

Shane Warne (right) went all out to defend Michael Clarke (left) © Getty Images

“Players like Steve Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Ricky Ponting and others really tried to make the baggy green culture something special, but I could sense it was under threat and under Michael’s captaincy I can sense it has disappeared a bit, and that disappointed me,’’ Buchanan said.

“It was almost as if Clarke was destined to be captain and he never was a silent partner – he had strong opinions and the good thing was that meant if he saw something he did not agree with he would certainly speak up about it.

“If he finished games early, Michael would often leave early. I can remember guys like Hayden and Langer sitting him down in a corner and trying to get him to understand what we were trying to achieve. There were times when I felt Michael did not understand or did not want to understand.

“If Michael reads this I am sure he will say he did cherish the culture, but if you asked him to define it, his definition would not be the same as the likes of Adam Gilchrist, Ponting or myself.’’

Hayden gave an incredible insight into how Clarke could be a divisive figure, telling how Simon Katich was injured in a Sydney Test, and Clarke had not wanted to field at bat-pad.

“We needed someone, and usually it goes to the youngest in the side,’’ Hayden told Brisbane’s Triple M Radio “He (Clarke) said – ‘If I have to wear that, I will hand my baggy green back.’’

???????????????????

Q30 ???

Edited August 15, 20159 yr by dee-luded

I am not sure why you are gloating. I picked you up on the double standard of say Clarke should never been Captain and is not a leader but wanting to retaining him on as Captain.

Buchanan does not rate Clarke as a Captain but he has not hypocritically argued that he would have kept Clarke on for 12 months to mentor Smith. At least Buchanan could not be that stupid.

Edited August 15, 20159 yr by Qwerty30

I am not sure why you are gloating. I picked you up on the double standard of say Clarke should never been Captain and is not a leader but wanting to retaining him on as Captain.

Buchanan does not rate Clarke as a Captain but he has not hypocritically argued that he would have kept Clarke on for 12 months to mentor Smith. At least Buchanan could not be that stupid.

there was NO double standard at all q30, you obviously didn't read what i wrote; or your too stupid to understand it? I can't tell which it is with you, as I don't know you.

so I stand by the recent comments, & others I've written in the past re clarke. it seems he's been a virus in the team, especially with his leadership aspirations, & then his captaincy as well.

............. putting Clarke, & that Mickey Arthur together was just a masterstroke of pure genius from the acb. no understanding of a countries culture & how it works.

I am not sure why you are gloating. I picked you up on the double standard of say Clarke should never been Captain and is not a leader but wanting to retaining him on as Captain.

Buchanan does not rate Clarke as a Captain but he has not hypocritically argued that he would have kept Clarke on for 12 months to mentor Smith. At least Buchanan could not be that stupid.

only you could be that stupid, as clark was shyte as the test leader off field,,,, & Smith was obvious to blind freddy, as the next test captain; there is no one else at present.

so, the only option was Smith; who in my mind, was a bit too green just yet to be thrown in the deep end, as his first stint showed some minor issues Re plain maturity, & experience of leadership thinking.

no not tactics Q30...

so he would have benefited from another 12 months watching the current skipper, & overlaying his own thoughts as he watches clarkes actions.

but now he won't have that opportunity. & you call that double standards... I call it captaincy transition. unless you think Watto should stand in as captain for 12 months, in which case, you could then have something of an relevant concept.

however I won't try to lecture you about your reading perceptions.

Nice to see some old school batting from the Australian's so far tonight.

I feel like I've gone back in time to 1992 and it's Mark Taylor & David Boon opening the batting!

Nice to see some old school batting from the Australian's so far tonight.

I feel like I've gone back in time to 1992 and it's Mark Taylor & David Boon opening the batting!

I see you finally got Siddle into the side TD - Warne wasn't too happy about it though. Shane wanted him in for the 4th test but I'm not sure whether he said as much "at the time" ... I hope he does well all the same and Hazlewood did need a spell - Josh will be back though, he's got loads of potential.

And you're right, that session was a bit of a throwback. A good, solid start.

I see you finally got Siddle into the side TD - Warne wasn't too happy about it though. Shane wanted him in for the 4th test but I'm not sure whether he said as much "at the time" ... I hope he does well all the same and Hazlewood did need a spell - Josh will be back though, he's got loads of potential.

And you're right, that session was a bit of a throwback. A good, solid start.

Yes, finally got my way Macca.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big wrap for Hazlewood, but just feel that Siddle's control with the ball is something that's been lacking. No doubt Hazlewood will provide that control eventually, but Siddle's there already.

Given we're going to have a very inexperienced batting line up, I figure an experienced bowling line up could be the way to go forward. Johnson, Siddle, Lyon & one of Pattinson or Cummins for me. Starc to become a regular once Johnson's time is up, which likely won't be to far away. Think he's said himself that he's got Lillee's wicket tally in his sights, and once that's achieved it could be it.

Yes, finally got my way Macca.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big wrap for Hazlewood, but just feel that Siddle's control with the ball is something that's been lacking. No doubt Hazlewood will provide that control eventually, but Siddle's there already.

Given we're going to have a very inexperienced batting line up, I figure an experienced bowling line up could be the way to go forward. Johnson, Siddle, Lyon & one of Pattinson or Cummins for me. Starc to become a regular once Johnson's time is up, which likely won't be to far away. Think he's said himself that he's got Lillee's wicket tally in his sights, and once that's achieved it could be it.

I've got Starc in - I reckon he'll have a big summer. On our hard, fast tracks, all our young fast bowlers will be a handful (especially against the Windies) Jackson Bird and Coulter-Nile are another couple who could play that 3rd seamers role.

The batting remains the concern but we might consolidate and recover a lot more quickly than people think. The upcoming 11 tests (which includes the tours to Bangladesh in October and the tour of New Zealand in February next year) offer lots of opportunities for the would-be batsmen that will come into the side. As it happens, it's an ideal time to re-build the team.

Been a good day so far from the Aussies.

Shame Warner couldn't get 100, but if we were offered 2/184 at Tea on Day 1 after being sent in, you'd take it every day of the week! Clarke looking solid so far also.

Lets hope we can convert this start into a score of 400+ and at least try and finish this horror of a series off with a win.

76 for Voges, out to a ball that kept low, and it's only Day 2!

Wonder if that score is enough to hold his spot for Bangladesh?

Another low score for Mitch Marsh, but great patient 100 for Smith.

Dead rubber, but good to see him make a ton just before he's due to take over the captaincy.

Had been a good session up until that last over. 4/89 in a session, but we're just about at 400 on a track that's going to turn.

Lets hope Smith & the tail can add a few and get us into a strong position.

76 for Voges, out to a ball that kept low, and it's only Day 2!

Wonder if that score is enough to hold his spot for Bangladesh?

We're losing a lot of experience in one hit (Rogers, Clarke, Watson & Haddin) so I reckon there's room for someone like Voges or perhaps Voges himself - he or Shaun Marsh might be retained but I doubt whether it would be both.

The issue is that we need to find another opener, the no.3 or 4 spot is up for grabs whilst the all rounders spot needs to be consolidated - Mitch Marsh looks the most likely ... I reckon they'll continue with Nevill.

Khawaja or Burns will possibly get another run at it whilst Bancroft is now being talked about as the possible opener to partner Warner. Interesting that Bancroft's fielding position is listed as a wicketkeeper so he's obviously got a bit of talent ... not sure he keeps for WA though - he may have filled in occasionally.

We're losing a lot of experience in one hit (Rogers, Clarke, Watson & Haddin) so I reckon there's room for someone like Voges or perhaps Voges himself - he or Shaun Marsh might be retained but I doubt whether it would be both.

The issue is that we need to find another opener, the no.3 or 4 spot is up for grabs whilst the all rounders spot needs to be consolidated - Mitch Marsh looks the most likely ... I reckon they'll continue with Nevill.

Khawaja or Burns will possibly get another run at it whilst Bancroft is now being talked about as the possible opener to partner Warner. Interesting that Bancroft's fielding position is listed as a wicketkeeper so he's obviously got a bit of talent ... not sure he keeps for WA though - he may have filled in occasionally.

Could be on the money there Macca.

Can see Bancroft opening with one of Khawaja or Burns at 3.

Mitch Marsh really has struggled this series with the bat. Given the next series is in Bangladesh, I wonder if the selectors decide to go horses for courses and select Glenn Maxwell in the all rounders role. Not only for his spin bowling, but he's also a very good player of spin.

Wow, i know this has been said before but .... Didnt see that coming! Shes all over.

How about Lyon's ball to Cook!

I had expected this kind of performance pre-series - Smith, Warner, Rogers making runs, then attacking bowling from Starc and Johnson with control from the other pace bowler(s). Neither Watson nor Hazlewood could manage it, and Siddle should have been playing at least one Test earlier. And, of course, the batting has been abysmal other than here and at Lord's.

I wouldn't write Siddle's career off. Rogers and Clarke need replacing, so Voges could hold his spot simply because we don't have three good enough batsmen to come in (we don't have two, to be honest). But I wouldn't be continuing with Voges in the side on the back of a 70.

Also, ripping article on Cricinfo by David Hopps - http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/content/story/911881.html

When you read it, and think about how the series has panned out, it's hard to see how England have beaten us three times. Lyth is awful, Cook's reached 50 once this entire series, Bairstow/Ballance have been just average, Stokes started well with the bat but has faded, and Buttler's not scoring runs either. The runs come from Bell or Root, and each has only played maybe 3 or 4 great innings. With the assistance of Moeen, Broad and Wood making some lower order runs when required, they've done enough with the bat to hold us at bay and relied on our ineptitude with the bat.

He also points out the no ball problem that's getting worse. Finn and Marsh both took wickets on no balls, and both times the gap between foot and line was enormous. Umpires are so worried about making the right decision at the striker's end that they seem to be missing regulation no balls, let alone tight ones. Bowlers are pushing the envelope with it because they're not being called through their spells, which results in more no balls occurring, and any time you take a wicket they're going to check. Bowlers obviously can fix the problem by learning to bowl from behind the crease but if umpires let them go aside from wicket balls, it's going to keep happening.

Siddle the beauty

didn't see it, but gee, it feels good.... Lyth & Bell, next.

I said this after the 3rd test I think, but with Harris having retired, Siddle is now very important for the team balance. He not as exciting or as dangerous as a Pattinson, Cummins, Hazlewood, Strac etc but he's a very important role player.

If Siddle's in the team bowling line & length it allows Johnson & our other quick (suspect it will be Cummins in Bangladesh) to attack thanks to the pressure being built at the other end. Hazlewood on the other hand in the first 4 tests who was suppose to be playing that role was leaking runs.

Personally, I think Siddle is an automatic selection until Hazlewood can do it consistently at Shield level (which he pretty much does already) but also try and do a similar think in the ODI's with Starc & Faulkner.

Looks like Clarke is enforcing the follow on for the first time. Rogers & Warner not racing off at the end of the innings as per usual.

We may not see Clarke or Rogers bat again....

Looks like Clarke is enforcing the follow on for the first time. Rogers & Warner not racing off at the end of the innings as per usual.

We may not see Clarke or Rogers bat again....

Looks thatnway......could be dangerous, still looks a ripper wicket but will turn on day 4 n 5. If we had to chase 150 could be interesting