Dees2014

Totally agree. And those coaches who are found to have encourage performance enhancement are usually banned for life and some end up in jail. We are a long way from that regime, but should we be, that is the question?

The afl penalties two seasons ago were for bad governance. It has no bearing on any penalties for drug use. IMO this is heading to the COAIS (sports court) under the sponsorship of WADA as I don't think any Australian authority will have the courage to hand out the penalty that Hird and Essendon deserve. There are just too many vested interests, particularly economic interests. Either way, Essendon will go for a row.

Yes, but they can use it in the AFL tribunal who will initially rule (probably lightly). Then WADA will take it to the CAS where it also can be used. Essendon are stuffed. It is getting to the point where they are running out of options to hide.

I don't know why people speculate that either Essendon, or their players would get a reduced sentence for cooperation. They have been the opposite of cooperative. If anything, if they get as far as WADA and the COAIS, they will be severely further punished because of their obfuscation and delaying tactics while blaming others, especially ASADA, for the delays. In my view, this has been no more than I piggy bank for the legal profession, with advice being supplied more in the interests of keeping the gravy train alive than coming to an advantageous settlement. Their legal and PR advice has been appalling. Little should know better. Hird is the captive of Tania, and their respective sociopathic personalities. The upshot though, is they have positioned themselves to receive optimum penalties, not minimal penalties. WADA in particular do not take kindly to being manipulated like this. Their fate is sealed, and IMHO the penalties will be a lot higher than many are expecting.

I suspect Roos requires a higher skill level. Solid citizen though. All the best to him. He is also smart. Maybe he might serve in some other capacity with the club eg spotting talent in SA.

And I might add not acting in the overall interest of ALL AFL players which they are required to do. They are acting in the narrow interests (as defined by their money hungry lawyers) of the Essendon players, and even that is highly debatable.

How has Caro been proven wrong? She and Patrick Smith IMO are the only two journalists who have been consistently right. If you want someone in the most senior afl writer post who is ALWAYS wrong, have a look at that [censored] Mark Robinson. I know Caro knows a hell of a lot more about this than she is able to write about (for legal reasons) and she believes (as Smith does) that everything will be revealed in the end. She is hugely confident that Essendon (in their present form) will be finished by it, Hird's career will be over, little will go, and at least some Essendon directors will end up in jail. Financially they will be broken by the extensive litigation which will come at them over the next five years.this is far from over...

They may do, but then WADA will step in and appeal. When this happens, if you look at cases internationally, WADA mostly wins.

The NRL was entirely different from Essendon: 1. They cooperated from the start and didn't try to use their financial and political muscle to weasel their way out of what they had done. 2. Their doping programme was not systematic and lasted no more than several weeks. 3. They were also prepared to deal early with ASADA, Essendin are gone, far more seriously than many on here realise.

Yes WJ, i agree. It is significant that those players who are (1) no longer at Essendon (2) taken out their own legal counsel are the ones rumoured to be about to "break ranks" on the players saying they will not deal and admit guilt. On the vested interest of the legal profession, the way Hird paraded the "new advice" upon the announcement he will challenge the verdict "because our lawyers advise we have an 80% chance of winning". Well I have news for JH. They usually do, when there are no consequences for them if they lose and they are being paid $10k plus a day. Hird (and Tania) are gifts who keep on giving - both sociopaths, seemingly with unlimited resources, and extremely vulnerable to flattery and being told what they want to hear.

I like it. By far the best team in here. The rest showed little improvement from last year IMHO. this team could go places. A bench of garland, watts Gawn looks really interesting. watts/garland to midfield anyone?

WADA/ASADA can appeal, but my understanding is that it would be to the Court of Arbitration in sport, an internationally based sporting body. There is very little room for local politics to influence them. On these issues, if you look at the history, both here and internationally, WADA should be described as "activist" in these matters. Very little escapes their attention if they believe local,bodies are being lenient for any reason. I believe anything less than two year bans on Essendon, given their consistently obstructionist behaviour, would be seen by WADA IMHO as lenient. Little, hird, Thompson will not escape. The players will get penalties, so will the officials, it might just come in a different form. It is very interesting to follow the utterances of John Fahey, ex premier of NSW and immediate past global president of WADA. He I think could, or should, be seen as the unofficial spokesperson for WADA in Australia. He has been very consistent in insisting that the law should take its course and Essendon will attract harsh penalties because of the systematic nature of their drug abuse, and their subsequent obstructionist behaviour after they were found out (neither of which applied to Cronulla). Essendon and Hird won't escape with soft penalties, of that I am extremely confident

Let's get him and back Roos into managing him. If he can be managed could be valuable for us. Let him play lots of bruise adorned football!!!

I'm suggesting, and I admit it is no more than informed speculation, that with Trengove tradable, we were trying for a mega trade eg Dangerfield , Beames, who knows? All the rhetoric from the club via leaks was that we were going for something big. It all seemed to stop dead after Trengove's medical, presumably because we did not have the currency to get it done. From there we made a judgement call that maybe the best value was in the draft. Some very good judges seemed to say that the high draft picks this year seemed ready to go a la Ollie Wines rather than Scully, Trengove, Watts, McLean, Sylvia. Need I go on? It remains to be seen I suppose. The point I was making is that you can give TOO much away in trading and sometimes there is more value in the draft particularly if you have high draft picks.

I know there was considerable frustration on this site that we did not land some "big fish" over the trade period. Clearly for various reason, particularly the unfortunate Trengove revelation no one wanted to trade with us. I think the club showed sensible balance by say "ok we will get what we can by drafting the most mature elite players from the draft". This I believe will stand us in very good stead in future. Indeed from all that we read this year's draft elite, they are in fact elite hard heads and stand every chance of developing into A-graders, and in a short space of time. Let's say more Ollie Wines than jack Watts or Luke Molan.. Let's hope so. The only sign of panic was in the last ten minutes when in my mind stupidly we spent 23 on Frost. Frost is no Bernie Vince. I think we could have done a lot better than that. Overall though. I suspect we will look back on the 2014 trade period as the foundation of our next premiership......we are starting to see the team that Roosy built. I for one am impressed

Black and White equals Port to me, equals Wines. Get it done Demons, it should have been done three years ago when he and Todd Viney desperately want it to be.

We have some pessimists on here, with no idea how to manage negotiations. YOU DONT SHOW YOU WHOLE HAND FIRST ROUND.Roos is being Roos - cool cold and calculating, and overridingly, patient. Tyson last year did not emerge until the last two days. We might even wait until the draft because the best long term players are there for us. I would have thought a trading period of: Brayshaw, Lumumba, Frost, Stretch, Gartlett, McCartlin and maybe someone like Cockatoo-Collins, as well as effectively a number 1 draft pick restart with 50+ games in him Jack Trengove. I would have thought that was a brilliant outcome. It is certainly represents a vastly improved list on our current one.

I could show you very similar posts last year. We were very quiet for the first four days then Roosy hit us with the big one. The exciting part is he has more chips to play this year at the very top of the draft. It will be done, even if it is only getting 2 of the best 3 kids in the land. I somehow think though that they will be more strategic. Can I say though that we are not getting 2 or 3 first round draft picks next year but FOUR. Jack Trangove has been seriously injured for possibly two years now. He will return this year to his form of his first two years. If so, it will give us a top pick, but someone who has played 50+ games. He will be a star. I also expect Salem to come on in leaps and bounds this year and hopefully Toumpas. I must say as I write this I remember the class jimmy T showed in his first NAB cup game. He still has that if he can overcome his significant injury history. We are in a great position to improve next year. It is now up to the coaching staff to make it happen. I'd rather be in our position though than any other club in the bottom half of this year's ladder

Still think Caro is the best journalist working in the Afl. In the best traditions of investigative journalism, she goes without fear of favour (with the possible exception of the Tiger - but can be very critical of them too) and is one tough cookie which I must say I like and admire. She has been utterly relentless in pursuing the Essendon story when many in the Essendon, the players association, AFL, their heavy of collective lawyers were trying to shut her up. She quite rightly got journo of the year. I venture to suggest the truth would not have come out without her dogged persistence, with a bit of help from Patrick Smith, and absolutely no help from that [censored] Mark Robinson

I think ASADA are playing a very cool and some might say ruthless game. They easily out-manoeuvred mr. & ms hird, and their acolyte Paul Little at their court appearance. They are now sitting and waiting for them to further self-destruct. It would not surprise me at all if hubris led the Hirds to appeal the decision which would in three months time see it being chucked out again. In the meantime ASADA will serve infraction notices, and a significant number of present and past Essendon players will negotiate their own way out of this mess, probably resulting in a significant number of them suing the Hirds, Essendon and the AFL as they do. None of those parties would IMHO have any chance of avoiding heavy damages on negligence grounds. The balance of players who do not seek an individual settlements will be left in limbo for a further 12 months or so. The result of all this in my view will be that Essendon will find itself in receivership within 12-24 months, and Hird and Little will be both out of jobs. This is before: Workcover completes their investigation which could see further heavy fines, and possible action against the directors of EFC; and I would also suspect the corporate regulators will look very closely at issues relating to Directors duties as well. Essendon will re-form under a different corporate structure, but the old regime will be gone, very much poorer, and even some of them possibly in jail. None of this is good for the AFL, nor for the game itself, but maybe it is the clean-out the game and Australian sport had to have to ensure that egomaniacs like the Hirds and indeed Little never again get the untrammelled power they had over the past couple of years.

Thompson has made millions from property while at Geelong. Money is not the issue. A burning desire to prove doubter wrong, and to right the injustice of what Essendon are about to do to him are the real issues...

Yeh right. Wish we could struggle so much.....it is great if your coach struggles to two flags. What a dream come true!

Revenge is a big motivator, and I suspect he is going to be treated appallingly. Little and the Essendon board continue to exhibit the insensitivity and boorishness about which they have become so famous. I suspect Hird will come back, and it will a destroy Essendon...

I will put this out there.....the next coach has already been sewn up - Mark Thomson. He has been treated appallingly by the bombers, will be stabbed in the back when the French Prince returns, is a great coach, he and Roos are great mates, Jackson thinks he is the "ants pants", and he will want revenge - big time! I proffer the following scenario: 29 mins into the final quarter the bombers lead the dees by 5 points in the 2017 grand final. Watts grabs the ball in the centre bounce, kicks 60 metres for hogan to take a screamer 55 meters out, the siren sounds, and he dobs it half goal,post height (Buckannara like). Hird goes nuts! And refuses to come out of the coaches box. Thomson has nothing more to prove and gives Hird the "two finger" salute. Oh what bliss!!!