Jara

My god, that Cheapseats thing was a confusing piece of writing. Our own Whispering J is the king of clear expression. From what I can gather, Essendons main defence is their outrage at the fact that the AFL supported the investigation. As my kids would say...like, er ...if the AFL wants to protect the integrity of the game, how could it not support the investigation? I also don't get why they're banging on about Demetriou supposedly giving them a warning, as if that's a greater crime than their own funnelling of gallons of Pig [censored] or Bat's Blood or whatever it was into their own players. From what I can see, he'd heard whispers about the Bummers program, heard an investigation was coming, put two and two together and tried to do them a favour. Does absolutely nothing to validate their own disgusting activities.

I did my best (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/spat-over-tanking-bedevils-dees-20130111-2clhj.html ) Didn't do much good - AFL just looking for a whipping boy. I just wish Roos hadn't reminded everybody about it

Hope my old English teacher isn't on here, but I reckon that that sentence is gramatically correct. It does have a subject, even if it's just an implied one (whatever the 'this' is referring to)

Sorry for long quote (on iPad - bit awkward cutting and pasting) but I wanted to comment on the club's supposedly constantly picking the wrong players. I groan when I see some of our high picks bumbling around the field, but weren't they all pretty well chosen at where they were predicted to go? I can't recall too many surprises in there. Which I suppose means the fault is in our player development ( or maybe bad luck's got something to do with it, as the other thread says)

My problem with the article is that she only mentions one other tanker. From what I could see of that period, just about everybody tanked, especially her beloved Tigers (Wallace openly admitted it) The AFLs own structure encouraged it. Therefore the article is unfair, and yet another example of kicking a man when he's down. I like Mydees original comment, that there are a multitude of reasons why we are crap, many of them to do with the structural unfairness of the AFL ( ie that we bottomed out around e time the expansion teams came in, or that we are a small player in an age of Big Business) Mind you, I'm not saying tanking didn't contribute - I suppose Roos himself is saying that But it suits the interests of the Powers That Be to make it look like its all our fault (much the same way the Government is demonising the unemployed at present, to disguise the fact that their own policies are favouring rich people and sending jobs off-shore) Collingwood tanked, and went on to win a premiership.

Thoughtful post. I've wondered that sometimes, too. I suppose every melbourne supporter has. (Mind you, there are many areas in life in which we make out own luck)

Sorry I never have anything original to add, but I've had enough. Sick to death of the whole thing. Not going to any more games this year. Dunno if I can be bothered renewing my membership. Just sick of being a Melbourne supporter. Kick in the guts every week. Better things to do in this life: read a book, write one. Do the gardening. Watch my local team. Can't convince my kids to come along or take much interest. Find Demonland the only interesting thing about the game Was never that excited about Roos. Too defensive (suppose he won a flag being that, but jeez I wish he'd win one for us) Also feel we've been screwed by the AFL. We bottomed out at the wrong time. They're only interested in the expansion teams, mainly so they can continue to stuff their own bloated wallets. CUBS, the lot of them, from Demetriou down, [censored] in Amani suits. Us, Dogs, Saints - permanent cellar dwellers. Apologies for pointless vent. Suppose I'll feel more positive by about February next year.

Good one. Haven't thought about the movie or the song for years, but right on both counts.

Interesting post. Thanks.

Sorry if this isn't a proper reply, but wasnt there a study a year or two ago that clearly demonstrated that umpires were affected by crowd behaviour? If anybody knows the reference, I'd be grateful. I remember thinking at the time that it really mitigates against us. Youd think it would even out - i mean they have to come over here often enough - but i suspect not. I mean, when Adelaide or whoever plays say the Pies or the Druggies in melbourne, the umpires get a huge, parochial mob of maniacs roaring at them. But when they play us, they get, with a few admirable exceptions, a small crowd of polite, middle-aged, middle-class clappers.

Very sad. disappointing end to a football career, but maybe not the end of his contributions to his community. I spent many years working out on those communities, including Yuendumu. A lot of the people who ended up in leadership roles had had wild younger days. I suspect he must have had some pretty special qualities to achieve what he did. Maybe they'll reappear in some other guise. Here's hoping.

Too tired to say anything other than.......uuuuugh!

So often when I read about sport these days, I'm struck by how stupid the individuals appear, particularly in relation to the amount of power and wealth they accumulate. Danks a perfect example: what a moron (not to mention having a head like a blistered slug). As WJ has said, that interview with Baker (or was it mcKenzie? theyre interchangeable) was a classic, and surely the smoking gun. Dank: something like "i gave them TB4". Mckenzie looks it up on the spot and points out that its banned. "oh, is it? oh well, i didnt give them that then." i mean, these guys are complete dimwits. There must be something in the water out essendon way. I suppose Little must be pretty smart to have accumulated all that cash, but jeez, how much longer is he going to spin out this "We don't know what we gave them, but whatever it was, it was great stuff" bs?

Hey WJ I take your point, but I still thought it was a very good piece. It's strength is in its timeliness. There's a risk that the various sideshows Little and his lawyers are stirring up will distract people from the main game. I reckon she's reduced that risk (still hate her when she's snapping at us, of course; she was bloody one-sided on the tanking thing - for me, that was like the Abbot budget - I could almost handle it if it was evenly distributed, but it wasnt - both budget and tanking debate further entrenched inequality) I just can't help listening to her, even when she's on 3AW with a panel of morons. Cheers

Speaking as a simple-minded onlooker, I've never understood the basis of the Bombers' challenge. They're alleging some kind of collusion/conspiracy between ASADA and the AFL. How on earth could ASADA carry out any sort of investigation if they didn't work with the sport's governing body? But then again, I couldn't even see what grounds they had for objecting to Dr Harcourts comments either; all he said was the same as every body who doesn't barrack for the Bombers was saying anyway. Not much worse, in fact, than their own Ziggy had already said. Black day for our game if they come away unscathed.

An interesting, and troubling, interpretation.

Sickening. If these buggers get off on some technicality dragged up by their squillion-dollar lawyers I'll be turned off sport forever.

Yep. And ditto the Marquis de Tird. These "victims" have a pretty decent bank balance, given to them, of course, by us suckers on the outer.

Yep. Darkhorse, you've hit the nail on the head. Little's basic argument: we don't know what we took, but whatever it was, it was harmless - oh and by the way, here's a writ to say that your lawyer had his wig on backwards and the whole investigation is therefore null and void and its all your fault and we are the most persecuted people since - oh, i dont know, Lindy bloody Chamberlain. 'Independent medical advice' my ar&$e. As Darkhorse said, from who? What did you tell them you took? I'm sure my doctor would be thrilled if I came along and said er I've swallowed the contents of the cleaning cupboard - no idea what was in there, but that's okay, isn't it?

Interesting how our tribal affiliations colour our opinions. For mine, I'd be sad to see any team disappear from the comp, especially one of the older Melbourne ones. That said, I'd love to see the Bombers slowly crucified, stewing down in the depths, like we have for years. I know it's what everyone here is saying, but the arrogance of that club and its blindness to the effects they are having upon young people staggers me. Bringing in the big legal guns to go through the investigation to find the slightest skerrick of mismanagement of the case and then carrying on as if they are victims of one of the great injustices of all time.....jeez, what a pack of creeps. Kind of turns me off sport, actually. BTW, I've been engrossed by this thread. Thanks to all contributors, especially WJ. Great work.

Jeez, closing in on old age forgetfulness, maybe, but I wouldn't want him working on me.

Yes. If they're innocent, prove it by handing over the records of what the players actually took If they fail to do this and get off on a technicality, it sets a terrible precedent for younger sportsmen and women and puts us right up there with East Germany and china. Technicality? Jeez. If you get enough slimy lawyers (present company excepted, of course) onto any piece of legislation they can find a loophole somewhere.

Thanks, Biggest, but still not quit working for me. Wants me to subscribe. Bit awkward with IPad. Too warm in bed, but soon I'll stir my lazy ass and check it out on the laptop. Quite like Patrick Smith (except when he's giving it to us) Cheers

Hey Biggestred Do you know how to copy the Patrick Smith article? I tried to access it, but it keeps blocking me because I'm not a subscriber. Cheers

I'm with you, Monoccular. It's the arrogance that gets to me. Typical big powerful organisation, thinking they're above the law. You're sprung doing something wrong, so rather than taking your medicine, you hire the best lawyers in the country to comb through the charges searching for a technicality you can use to have the case thrown out. Not one iota of ethics in thinking about what they might have done to their own players, much less to the thousands of youngsters who model themselves upon them. This Little creep; what kind of idiots does he think hes dealing with? His basic claim: weve no idea what we injected our players with, but whatever it was, it wasnt illegal. He keeps saying 'we don't believe', as if he's talking about religion or something. Huh? These are facts, man. You either know or you don't. They seem to have pretty accurate records on lots of other things. My wife is a nurse; she says any time you give any sort of injection, you keep a record of it. Enough of this. Makes me mad. Dinner time!