Jara

I had a look at it (even though it was posted by a Russian troll bot, or whatever Choke said he was) - from the look of this article : http://mediareviewnet.com/2018/03/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/ it's produced by an organisation backed by the Israeli intelligence service. The presenter, David Brog, is apparently a cousin of former Israeli PM Ehud Barak. For a more objective analysis of the Two-State solution, just look it up on Wikipedia. Very fair summary there.

Sorry, Dieter - you're right, go course (I did say I was sitting on the train - hard to write on the phone). I know that many of the leading spokespeople for the dispossessed (Edward Said, Hanan Ashwari, for example - alas, not Joe Hockey) are Palestinian Christians. I dare say though, that the continual massacre of unarmed protesters in Gaza does a lot to feed the fundamentalist fire.

Hi nut - only time for quick reply now - but always happy to discuss with you because you seem rational - on my phone on train so hope my answer makes sense (find it hard to tell from this tiny screen ) Do i think the kids were deliberately put in harm's way? I've got no idea. It's possible of course - from what we saw in Indonesia last week anything is possible. But i also know that demonstrations are mainly a young mans game and that where you've got 18 year olds throwing rocks chances are there's going to be a lot of 15 year olds. As i said before i was at the Melbourne apartheid demos (and numerous anti Vietnam War ones) when I was 15. Let me ask you a question in reply How can you say you "struggle " with the violence? That worries me. I have no equivocation at al l . There were a hundred unarmed protesters killed by one of the most sophisticatedmilitary forces in the world. It was barbaric.

Hey Daisy - According to a 2013 Gallup poll, 70% of Palestinians in the West Bank supported the Two-State solution - i.e. they accept the reality of Israel, so your assertion that they are all treacherously pushing for Israel to be destroyed is not correct. if we could all work towards that end, maybe over time the whole thing could settle down. Unfortunately, Jewish fanatics, supported by weirdo Christian fundamentalists and their end-of-days delusions, continue to steal Palestinian land, and Israeli snipers continue to massacre kids throwing rocks (I know the IDF claim that some - did i read 8? - of them had guns, but given that there've been thousands of Palestinian casualties and no Jewish ones, I'll take a bit of convincing). So I presume the anger in the bombed-out slums is festering and any chance of resolution is fading into the distance.

Isis, Taliban, the Mormons. I never know who started what - it all depends upon what propaganda you've read - what I do know is that the Palestinians are one of the most oppressed groups of people in the world and that two million of them have been crammed into that s*&hole Gaza where their kids keep getting shot. No wonder they're getting a little p'd off. No wonder they elected a bunch of thugs like Hamas. That said, as I mentioned earlier, I still kind of love Israel the country - it's a fascinating place - if I were there I'd probably be one of the people involved in the peace movement, which is quite sizeable. I don't see that there's much choice. All other paths lead to perdition. The only practical solution is the Two-State one (supported by most Palestinians last time I looked, though that number may be decreasing, given the IDF's brutality and the continuing theft of land on the West Bank) Unfortunately Trump just kicked a great hole in that prospect. God knows why - the influence of his son-in-law, perhaps? What a dope. What an A-grade dope.

Omg Pro is a Russian troll? That explains a lot of things. Maybe he's Mark J?

Hey Nut i imagine it depends upon what age you call a child. They seemed to be overwhelmingly angry youths - inevitable you're going to get some under age (happens everywhere - i was at the anti-apartheid protests when i was 15) My concern is the overreaction of the IDF - i heard an Israeli spokesman saying the situation was critical because there were Jewish schools operating only 700 metres away. And i thought - what? The situation is so critical you have to massacre 100 people (latest figures from today's Age) and yet you don't even close down the schools or move the kids to safety? Monsters. Harking back to my earlier reference to South Africa,even at Sharpeville there were only about 60 killed and the civilized world condemned the Aftikaaners - the Israelis are allowed to get away with murder and our own government won't even support an enquiry. (Excuse poor writing - on my phone and in a rush )

Ok let me reply with a simple question. 100 years ago the Palestinians had their own country, albeit under European colonial occupation. This land was taken from them, again largely as a consequence of European actions - ie the persecution of Jews and their perfectly understandable desire for a homeland. The consequence is that Palestinians are now a minority in what they understandably regard as their own country, with millions of them crammed into the Gaza hell-hole, still largely controlled by Israel. Their anger is clearly festering. My question is : what is your solution to this terrible situation?

Lemme get this straight. Somebody on this site makes a load of cruel allegations and smears against members of a particular ethnic group (e.g. not caring about children being shot because of what they'll grow up to be) and you think the question of whether or not he's ever actually met a member of said group is...."trivia"? Weird. Sounds like one of my racist old farmer uncles banging on about "boongs" back when I was a kid, though I doubt they'd ever met one. When I did actually meet them, I found them the nicest people I'd ever known. Will try to reply properly about the visiting the country comment when I'm not so busy, but - briefly - I've been to Israel a couple of times - not really as a tourist - well, I suppose I was on a tourist visa, but I was staying with Jewish friends of mine who'd left Melbourne in the eighties to live there. By Israeli standards, they were very progressive - (one was a doctor) believed in the two-state solution, had Arab friends and colleagues etc. I loved the country - progressive in many ways, very advanced, friendly people, at least the ones I met - but I also got a sense of what life must be like for the Palestinians - see themselves, quite rightly, as having been oppressed by Europe since the Crusades (colonisation, Sykes-Picot agreement, etc) - the thing that concerned me most was this weird alliance between fundamentalist Jews and Christians who continued to steal Palestinian land for illegal settlements on the West Bank (14 years since I was there - dunno what it's like now, but I presume under Netanyahu it's worse) That and the fact that you had millions of Palestinians crammed into that hellhole known as the Gaza Strip - a breeding ground for angry young men if ever I saw one (not that I actually went there).

I'm confused. I ask Pro if he's ever actually been to this country he's got so many opinions on and you say it's me who has to open his eyes?

Here's the reference to trigger your memory, Pro - sorry, mine was playing tricks with me. It was three daughters and a niece. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izzeldin_Abuelaish, and the doctor's name was Izzeldin Abuelish.

Pro im curious. Have you ever actually spoken to a Palestinian? Or been to Israel?

Such generosity of spirit. Remember the last Israeli attack on Gaza, the Palestinian Doctor whose five daughters were killed by the Israeli military? Do you include them in your callous condemnation? Do they make your heart melt?

Distinctly unpleasant irony about the fact that Israel is now gassing babies and shooting children.

Palestinian deaths now over 60, (including children). Over a thousand others hospitalised with gunshot wounds. Israeli casualties: zip. Pretty easy to see who are the terrorists here.

I've been thinking about the terrible events that Jesse went through last year - losing a father, surviving cancer - picks himself up and plays brilliantly - and now these baboons lay this crap on him. Sorry I've got nothing original to add - just getting it off my chest, but what a pack of scumbags.

If Trump actually manages to get nuclear weapons off the Korean peninsular I'll be the first (well, second - he'll be the first) to congratulate him. But so far, he's achieved nothing more than Bush did with his "Mission Accomplished" PR stunt (half a million dead and counting). Colleagues of mine who've studied this issue opine that the real mover behind all of this is Xi Jin Ping (who I presume doesn't want a pair of fat psychopaths hurling missiles at each other so close to his kingdom).

Since Reagan? Meh - since Andrew Jackson - so he thinks, anyway.

Good luck, Colin - and good move, getting off social media. I've never been on it, but from what I see of my kids, it looks like a recipe for mental disaster, both for the individual and for society (Zuckerberg makes my flesh creep).

Nice post.

Great thread. Thanks. Good luck with it all ( I remember now - I think you mentioned the basketball team somewhere in our Marriage Equality discussion) I've never been to The Philippines but I do sometimes daydream about retiring to Thailand. Unfortunately my (Aussie-born) wife doesn't seem so keen - the occasional holiday's enough for her.

Good job, Faulty. Excuse me if I'm being nosey, but what brings you to the Philippines? (I seem to recall you saying you work in mining, in Queensland?)

What's that mean?

Wasn't saying it to show you what a wonderful person I am (alas, I'm not) - I said it to illustrate the fact that, if you behave ethically, there are people in this world who will support you for it. Speaking out is a way of encouraging businesses (and football clubs) to behave with decency (that's why we are members of a super fund noted for its ethical investment) It was the phrase "virtue-signalling" that puzzled me. Like I said, I never heard it until recently, and it doesn't seem to make much sense. From what I can gather, it's an expression that right-wingers have started using to belittle anybody who expresses progressive views. The trouble is,it doesn't mean anything. For example, when I heard Bolt using it, I think he was using it to mock somebody who was in favour of alternative power. So if you speak out in favour of solar power, you are "virtue signalling". Whereas If you speak in favour of coal-power, you are not. What's the diff? They're all just political opinions.

Proud of the club. I'm going to upgrade my membership. And BTW, what's with all these people rabbiting on about "virtue signalling"? I never even heard the phrase until there past couple of years - now Andrew Bolt says it every time he opens his mouth (and his lackeys follow suite). I don't get it. Are they saying that, from now on, it's impossible to do anything for an honourable motive? That all you're doing is "virtue-signallng" - i.e., I presume, telling the world how good you are? Weird.