IRW

The difference is that we seemed to think that simply tanking over a three year period to get number one draft picks was all we needed to do, the rest would take care of itself. Therefore, I'd argue that our culture until recently has been built around pipe dreams, laziness and complacency.

The Hawks and Pies have at least used their ill-gotten gains correctly.

Hallelulah at last someone actually gets it!

Its also the reason that the journos and some other coaches (all successfull) appear to hate MFC........They couldnt even cheat efficiently.

If the Dees were contenders there wouldnt be a witch hunt and I suggest thats why Brock wasnt concerned about going to Carlton...he didnt actually blame tanking he said it was the vibe around MFC. or something similar.He wanted to go somewhere where there was a ruthless drive for success.

Same thing for supporters as evidenced by the ridiculous Cloke edging closer to MFC thread about a squillion pages long and morphing into Goddard as the saviour when it becomes clear that Cloke aint happening.

Meanwhile the report that the Dees are 'into' Shannon Byrne from Geelong..28 and no superstar, but a very useful footballer from a winning culture with 100 games experience and two flags under his belt, doesnt even raise a sniff around here... not sexy enough I guess even though he's probably a realistic option who fits the clubs immediate needs

Change is difficult IRW.

People never embrace change until the pain of changing is less than the pain of doing the same thing.

I cannot see how we can stay the course we have been on since 1964. I am weary of losing and I am not alone. There will be good calls and maybe the odd bad one in this change.

I love Flash and wish him all the best. But if he chooses to leave, then so be it. That would be the soft option for a player at the end of his career. He could equally choose to stay and embrace the change.

I hope its the latter.

Yep I agree with most of that .Change is difficult,but my observation is that the handling of it is messy...I dont see the coach and the club as having established uts authority yet. Hopefully next year will bring more clarity. Like Green, Flash's time is up,contract or no contract. He was giving his best early in the season and he just couldnt produce the goods. I hope he pulls the plug myself and goes out a one club champ. Otherwise I hope he plays out his contract but,as I suggested, he doesnt seem very happy about things at present. We remember the early days and so,he implied, does he.It must be tough.

Watched the Crows/Swans game and I am so envious of the Swans supporters. They get their money's worth from an amazing TEAM of players, whose structures rarely fail, whose players would rather die than let the opposition get any free ball, they play for each other and so bloody hard at the ball. Super impressed. Players like LRT and Shaw are average players but in the Swans line-up they become major factors in the starting 22.

PLEASE Dees, sneak into their training, hold them down, stick needles in their veins and steal some of their blood for our boys.

And while I am it - how good is Goodes. Should we be speaking of him in the same tones as Ablett senior, Carey, Matthews? He is an absolute freak. Skilled, quick, huge heart, reads the play better than anyone in the modern game and runs all day.

They reckon some women have penis envy - I have Swans envy.

It will be interesting to see what they can do with Moloney if he was to go there and then we could ask why Neeld and Craig cant make Watts into Goodes mark 2

Well i know the bit about the 'vibe' because the player said it to me,of course it may just his personal feeling ..what do you think? Its interesting ( to me at least) that the Tiges have just cut 6(?) ..bang...while at MFC it seems to be a pretty dirty process of 'retirements' trade request stories,rumour and innuendo and thus far the huge cull hasnt occured. I can't see how Neeld is in charge of this process myself. Just an observation from the outside of course

See quote above about 'club vibe' Bossdog. If a coach never says anything nice about individuals,just talks stats, its not suprising that there are 'leaks'.....people want to be heard and acknowledged.If I was told that if I 'behaved' I'd be around next year I reckon I might launch a guerilla attack

I spoke with a bloke who plays AFL just before he became a father again so I expected him to be excited.But he was out with injury and out of sorts,said the good times he remembered seemed long gone and there was a very sombre vibe around his club at present,no matter what the young leaders might be saying. My thought at the time was that this bloke was unlikely to play out his contract..

Funny, I told everyone about how Stef Martin pretty much [censored] on Neelds game plan at the beginning of the year and this was one of the fundamental reasons why Neeld wasn't playing him. Majority laughed at me. Now people are electing to trade him stating these reasons. Logic on demonland is good logic

On the other hand what is correct is that Neeld had Stef earmarked for CHF at the beginning and now we are told by Hells Gates that he knows the top priority is for a KPF.

So it's fair to speculate that Stef may be disposable for one reason or another. Certainly he'd be one of the few on the list who'd have a reasonable trade value

I would be really interested to know how you deduce that Neeld clearly does not want Stefan ?

There is a rumour around that Martin isnt happy at being told what to do,Graeme.

Schoolteachers dont take kindly to bad attitude and Coach Neeld is nothing if not a school teacher,though he may be a very good one.

more interesting is the Hawks depth...they have to adjust their list after they win the premiership

Gysberts wont get picked up by the Hawks,

Its a mystery why Cam did but I bet he's glad he wasnt out there in the first quarter.

I was in the stand and it was scarey.

This feculent turd of a post has reached 5 pages and still going... why do we give so much credence to what is obviously a troll?

lol This is 'land is it not?

I'm getting the hang of this .

I read who started the thread before I opened it .

Actually Charlie quit years ago,though Bill Wyman is reportedly in training with the boys for a comeback final season

'Qui qui je suis un AFL star"

Neeldy's first address to the players. I don't think he could make it any clearer that if you don't meet a certain level of commitment, you don't play.

Looks like Gysberts was an abject failure in this regard.

Once again, poor recruiting.

[media=]

A particularly unpleasant introduction to the players if I may say so.

Totally lacking in the key element of Yabbie Jeans first speech to the Hawks where apparantly he said something like ' You have no reason to respect me yet, but until I have earnt your respect you will respect my position as coach of this club.'Which seems to me like a good way to bring the players on board for what was unquestionably an uncompromising 'ride' .

Anyway while we dont know what else Neeld said when the cameras werent rolling we are entitled to wonder,given what is said there, why Watts is still on the list, because he clearly fails that test.

#5 Froggie 1964 GF would surely have to be the greatest all time Demon goal

Amen to that. I was 14 and I was getting worried because I wasnt used to watching Melbourne lose. At that moment I realised there was a god,he was a Demon, and to this day I walk into the G expecting (deep down) that the redlegs will win. Sadly though my faith is waining,I have a buddhist worldview now and the noble truth of suffering looms large......Time for another one please.......Watts from the members wing boundary after 3 bounces would do it I reckon

This site is slowly growing on me...some of the 10 page drafting threads read like Cheech and Chong but with haircuts and wearing suits but this one...this one is GOLD. More please Tex,its a long off season and Blueys posts are usually terse and quickly digested

Collingwood 6 footers

MFC 10 game heros

Hope I'm wrong but touch wood you guys....................no, not THAT 'wood''

You have your beliefs IRW and I am not going to argue about '186' and how JR admitted he didn't care what happend to the club that day.....

And for the record I blame everyone involved accountable for that day - there is no right and wrong side in my view - people should have gotten fired for their arrogance and what they did to this club.... A couple players and admin are still with us today - i just hope they do thier jobs....

I am interested in your thought highlighted though, what gives you that impression???

Firstly his propensity to apear in the 'hole' in the backline or arrive as 3rd man up in a contest down back(I dont imagine he will stay forward,they wont miss him there).

Waxing intercepts with Watts is one thing, but Jack is never in a contest if he can avoid it so Jareds absence will be sorely missed over time.

How much more work does Frawley have to do without Jared.?He must be really sick of it by now and HIS contract is up next year.

Wattsy isnt much help really and if they're looking for a KPP as reported we can assume Jack isnt returning forward any time soon.As good as he looks and he MIGHT learn to 'win' a game I dont think he'll ever 'save' one like Jared .

But the one I suspect we underestimate, and it is purely a guess, is that he's a calming influence around the place.

Doesnt get tossed about by circumstance. He's probably not a 'follow me' type of leader but I reckon he's always there to steady the ship just like he arrives at a contest when needed.....

Trust me, if he stays he'll be the bloke who saves the game that matters and right on the siren. to boot

Unfortunately it probably wont be the big one.

As a guide to any match prospects watch him trail the team onto the park ...if he's ever further forward then 3rd last they're in for a shocker. ( I dont advance this point as serious analysis )

Nevertheless a very important member imo and as I read the article he really acknowledged that no one cared rather than emphasising his rolein the debacle.

Pretty much how I saw it too. He was no more or less culpable than most/all the others.

So are you saying you wouldnt miss any of them because of that, or has Jareds honesty convicted him while others escape.

For the record I thought Watts put in as much as always.....I reckon that fact is more damming because as usual it made bugger all difference.

Still Rivers is a favourite of mine so take my rambling imagination with a grain of salt.

I don't necessarily disagree with you Heart Beats True... he's been consistant all year. My problem with Riv is he is consistent - He is a leader on and off field and for me personally I don't think he has offered a lot.

This article says it all for me about Riv - http://www.melbourne...19/default.aspx

I won't bore you guys with my disgust of anyone involved in that game (players/coaches/admin) but I will never forgive any one for what they did to OUR club that day

In summary I am not fussed if he stays or leaves....

You dont have to like what he said but when Jared speaks its usually simple honesty which is refreshing in this age of repetetive rehashing of the latest AFL coach-talk.

If he goes he will leave a huge hole and I suspect a deeper one than most of us realise.

Its hard to begrudge him a shot at glory though,in all likelihood his body wont stand up until the Dees even sneak up on Finals let alone play for the Flag....and to think a few years ago I had him penciled in for a Leo Barry moment to bring it home.

What the team did for the MFC that day,unintentionally, was expose Schwabb, and the now quiet CC as trouble makers, and by all readings around here,DB as not being up to his job....ie they forced the Board to do what most people approve of now and see as the most promising way forward. The architecture of history can be viewed from many angles which provides different understandings

I think you may find that Ratten is available, who as I recall had a pretty good midfield going when he was with us before (dementia prevents me from remembering exactly when, and who was his midfield).

Scotty Thompson and a young Sylvia next to Brock Mclean...who looked the goods at that stage.

That was about he time Flash was inventing defensive forward pressure and looked like he could be anything at all.Its difficult to understand how they stuffed that lot up so comprehensively isnt it/

Geelong are apparently open to the idea of Rivers replacing Scarlett.

...... As long as Scarlett doesnt decide to extend one more season and the massively dis interested Frawley is targeted to do the replacing, which would work better for the Cats and give Chip a chance to show how good he really is.

Stop calling us your friend!

What about Jones? Has he improved out of sheer will and the fact that he just yells "NA NA NA NA. Hey! NA NA NA NA" and puts his hands over his ears when Neeld talks to him?

Er yes to the first part at least ... Jonesy has been on a steady improve for 3 seasons now.

Possibly the new regime has helped him but they cant take the credit for his heart n soul approach bearing fruit.

Mind you if there are 15 who want out it wouldnt suprise me in the least, Hopefully only a couple of those are players that matter and they may get MFC a trade for some talented masochists from a club rich with the results of previous years of competant drafting

I think bluey that the club will give him his full 3 years and then make a decision.

I expect next year to be bleak with so many new faces and at the beginning of a rebuild. I don't expect we'll pick up much experienced talent this draft

To axe him next year would just be too much turmoil and given that the board has given him the ok to wield the axe not enough time to measure progress

I expect many will be calling for blood next year but he will see out at least his contracted 3 years

End of 2014 will be a MFC watershed and not just for the coach

Thank goodness for some sanity about this draft and next season.

Bluey is a 'glass empty' sorta guy but he's correct in highlighting Neelds window of opertunity (spelling as a mark of respect for Blue). Thus far he's shown nothing but his cold side and the total support of the Board and other backroomers is crucial to his success and perhaps MFC's survival.

The ace in his hand is that MFC doesnt appear to have many influential supporters who give a stuff about reving up the ante or interfering if it means they have to commit.

We desperately need to get some experienced talent in that October trade month . If we can snag 2 or 3 decent free agents and maybe trade for some talented 20-23 yo's it will lift our spirits . Apparently we have a 'War Chest' !

. Ha ha ha. 2 or 3 free agents ...they will be lucky to get one and if he is 'decent' every other club would be in the hunt......so you really mean a mercenary who will take a Sulleyesque proprtion of this 'war chest' everyone bangs on about. Talented prime age recruits. Oh sure ....will we offer them Bate or Morton with Ricky or Bennell thrown in as the clincher.Or perhaps one of the half dozen or so real players we have, that presumably even the school teacher would like to keep.. Have a look at the number of trades that happen every year and get back to me with how the worst list in town is going to swap for some talented prime age players . BTW Boak has re signed so can everyone at Fantasyland cross him off their lists please. Just as it was really really obvious that Neeld was waiting one season to see who he thought he could work with it is equally obvious that at best he will get one minor restricted free agent and perhaps 2 (max) trades done and they wont be earth shattering deals though,in time, they may be seen as masterstrokes. The interesting trades and pick ups will be at seasons end 2013 and next season should be viewed as similar to Jack Watts 2nd year (hopefully with much more steady improvement) ...................................... Big men/changes take time. I'm off to some park to kick the ball around with blokes who actually know what standard they're at.......the fresh winds of reality. Some of you guys are beating east to west around Cape Horn while pretending you're sailing a schooner on the Trade Winds passage to Tahiti. Schooners are for drinking,what are you on? FWIW Ricky might actually get to be part of a trade,but hardly for an obvious up and coming elite player...So far the guys gone or going are 'rejects' from the worst club in the league.To get a decent trade MFC will have to respond to someone knocking at the door not wandering past the front gate

My only comprehension is that being an AFL footballer is a tough gig and they get paid adequately. Their only recompense is glory and adulation from adoring fans.

Standards have been set and Ricky P couldn't be stuffed.

Jack Viney can't wait to play for this club and be coached by Neeld.

Many others are thinking...'Jeez, this guy is serious...'

Jack told you that he cant wait to be coached by Neeld did he?

Thats good news ,I hope they pick him up.

Personally I think there would be a myriad of different reasons that blokes play AFL... Greeny said he was just lucky to do.

something he loved. Dermie obviously loved the 'contest' Plugger probably didnt even like it and who knows what it mean to Ablett snr...but certainly not what you just said

Actually it might be easier to get a trade for Ricky than Bate or the various other players who are clearly going.

Probably a good thing and if Neeld was really blindsided it might even get him to think about the way he's dealing with the list.

"If they behave themselves they'll be here next year!!" sheesh...which way is the door