pantaloons

These are the KPPs drafted over the next 4 offseasons beginning at the end of the 2002 season: 2002: 15. Nick Smith 26. Jared Rivers 66. Ryan Ferguson (Picked up Nathan Carroll at 56 in the rookie draft) 2003: None (traded for Ben Holland) 2004: 43. Michael Newton Mathew Warnock picked up in rookie draft 2005: None

By erecting an anti-Judd banner on Sunday, you only give Carlton supporters the satisfaction of knowing that Judd's decision to play for Carlton has hurt you personally. Don't give them that. I won't even waste a boo on Judd. In any event, Judd didn't choose Carlton over Melbourne. The whole four-club circus was a complete sham devised to cover up his decision to move to the Blues in the middle of 2007.

Mick, you're right that being tough and winning the hard ball is a key component of any premiership side. That's not our main area of weakness though. We have very little speed across the ground and our skills are the worst I have ever seen from a Melbourne team. I think our clearances have been even this year, sadly we just have no idea how to use the football.

Looking at our key forward stocks during the off-season, it was obvious there were some serious issues. We'll be losing 1000+ goals soon from Neitz and Robertson, with next to nothing to replace them with. I had hoped Newton would be able to take on full-forward, with 'hope' being the operative word. What I had seen since his arrival at the club had give me little confidence that he would 'make it' as an AFL player. Even when he manages to snare a couple of goals, he rarely has an impact beyond that. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him improve out of sight and cement a key forward spot for the next decade, but I'm not getting my hopes up. We may see a smaller forwardline as the season progresses. Ultimately, the move of Green to full-forward could be something Bailey at least experiments with in the last 6 weeks of the season.

Forget Natanui. Carlton and Richmond are rancid effluent and will be lucky to win 5 games between them. I'd rather see us play well in our 150th year than hope for a wooden spoon and a kid that we have very little chance of acquiring.

That's a key difference right there, DeeReaming. Even though those Hawthorn trades were only a short time ago, clubs aren't as willing to give up top draft picks for average players any more. The Hawks made the very best of their situation. We couldn't pull those trades off if we tried now.

Carroll was just about the only Demon who could hold his head high yesterday, clearly our best. Ultimately though, he'd ideally be a third tall option for Melbourne.

Buddy is the most exciting player in the game, and an unstoppable force at times. His performance against Adelaide in last year's finals should dispel doubts about his ability to rise to the occasion. I don't follow the Dees because I think they are all super blokes, nor do I expect many footballers to be great human beings. The general penchant for boganity and selfishness amongst the playing fraternity isn't new. If we had 22 'tossers' who played like Buddy, I'd take it.

Welcome, V-Hawk. Always good to have sensible contributions on here from opposing supporters. From my perspective, there are three issues facing the MFC in terms of its supporter base: 1. MCC Membership: While not as large as previously, the percentage of Melbourne supporters among MCC membership is still aoudn 33% (18,000). My figures aren't completely accurate, but around the mark. 2. Dying out: Hawk, I wonder when we look at Hawthorn crowds now how many are Hawthorn supporters because of the team's success in the 70s and 80s. Melbourne has achieved next to nothing in 44 years, and that's got to have an impact on supporter numbers. Supporting the team your dad barracked for is still big here, but so is winning. 3. Apathy: Like all clubs, we have a die-hard base of fans who will watch the Dees in Melbourne regardless of how the team is travelling. This maybe smaller than other clubs, but no less passionate or loyal. The apathy lies in the rest of the people who barrack for Melbourne. It's my experience, and this may not be everyone's, that Melbourne has the highest percentage of supporters who barrack for the team but don't really care. Melbourne is their team, and that's where the story ends - it's not life and death for them. What you can do about these things without lighting a rocket under the supporters, I'm not sure. What I am sure of, is that winning will have a generational effect on the supporter base.

I don't think it's a stupid thread, but for me, the question is not the one in the title but this: Is Melbourne more likely to win a flag under Dean Bailey or Kevin Sheedy? I hear the argument for Sheedy. I know we're a struggling club financially and have a low membership base. However, don't be mistaken into thinking that three to five years of mediocrity (finishing 5th-12th) from Sheeds would sell more memberships thana couple of years of utter tripe from Bailey's men, followed by a gradual renaissance leading to a premiership. I know I'm simplifying matters, but the way I see it, Bailey will build this team for a premiership assault in four to five years time as opposed to Sheedy attempting to lead us to the finals each year, and that's fine with me. I've seen Melbourne make the finals plenty of times, but never a flag. It's why I follow sporting teams - to watch them in the hope of seeing them one day reach the top of the mountain, and it's why I'll support Bailey as long as he builds meticulously with a clear plan to win a premiership at Melbourne. The strongest case for Sheedy I believe lies in his potential to turn around the ordinary culture at the club in rapid fashion. That said, West Coast were premiers two years ago and Hawthorn are well and truly on the rise, so I'd rather the club focus on correctly putting the list together before worrying about culture. Actually, I'd rather them both addressed, but the state of the list comes first for me.

Obviously for the folks reading that article on Demonland, it's a case of the choir being preached to, but I'll comment on one thing only: His flippant remark about changing the jumper lost me. Changing the best guernsey in the league? That'll bring the people flocking through the turnstiles! Give me a break.

Absolutely, George. I couldn't understand having Davey running around lost in the midfield while the forwardline was stacked with four talls and virtually no crumbers. So often we've tried to make midfielders out of forwards, normally with less than desired results. The pressure from the forwardline was unsurprisingly embarrassing yesterday without him in there.

Despite the fact that the 1987 Prelim still ranks as one of the most horrific moments of my life (yes, possibly life hasn't been too bad), I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts on the subject. I'm the first to admit I don't have the greatest strategic football brain, but I feel I have a fair grasp of the theatre and emotions associated with our great game and club. Reading your thoughts has rekindled some old emotions, and really some of my earliest football memories. I doubt anyone could script a crueller football match, I really do. A team's first finals series in 23 years, a champion in his first finals series with a chance to finish a storied career in a Grand Final and possibly a premiership, premiership hope snuffed out not in the dying seconds, but after the team was in front at the final siren. You just couldn't have a more painful game. I've tried to take consolation over the years in the thought that we spent our petrol against Hawthorn and would have come up short against Carlton the next week. That's probably right. But for the boy who sat at VFL Park on that grey day and cried by his shattered father's side after the final siren, there has been little consolation in that defeat then or since. Perhaps had the game not ended in such tragic circumstances, Jim Stynes would never have started his foundation and been able to touch so many lives for the better. Thanks again for your comments. I know the preseason has been rotten thus far and I've offered no comment during the last few weeks, but stick by your team this season, folks, regardless of whether we're 2-20 or riding an emotional crest in our 150th year on our way to the top 4.

I'm sick of hearing about the leadership group to be honest. I've never been a fan of the concept though. Why do people have to be placed in an exclusive "leadership group"? Can they not show leadership on-field by smothering in the wet, kicking an important goal or winning the hard ball without being part of such a group? Or off-field by encouraging teammates, getting alongside the new recruits or setting the example on the trainng track? Teams need a captain as the face of the players and their leader, with a vice captain to back him up when he's injured. What is the purpose of a "leadership group" that excludes some, yet includes almost 20% of the list? We can groom potential leaders for the captaincy without a leadership group.

Thanks very much for sharing that, Craig. You didn't have to, but I for one greatly appreciate it. As someone who sits in the outer with Demon fans during winter and discusses football with fellow supporters ad nauseum, I've found it terrific to be able to hear from someone involved within the club on a semi-regular basis. Well done on your time with the Dees. I'd be lying if I wished you every success at Richmond, but I hope you find the experience of returning to the club that you clearly still hold a real fondness for a rewarding one. Thanks very much for your fantastic service, and accessibility to the fans here on Demonland.

Ideally I'd like Green to play as a forward, but I don't think 2008 is the time to switch him back there, given that we'll still have the likes of Neitz, Robertson, Newton, Yze, Davey, Sylvia and others playing down there. Yze and Neitz will be finished in twelve months time so openings will start to develop up forward. Green's not in TJ's class as a deliver to the forwardline, but then few in the league are. Brad improved this aspect of his game in 2007 I thought, although he still tends to kick the ball too high into the forward 50. I'm happy with him playing in between midfield and the forwardline in 2008, but moving closer to a permanent forward as his career goes on.

The list is thinning. If a few names aren't added to the list it may not even be worth participating in the PSD. No player mentioned in this thread excites me at all.

The best trade I can remember Melbourne pulling off involved the acquisition of Jeff Farmer for Phil Gilbert in one of the most comically lopsided deals in history. One of the few bigger steals than that was Adelaide slaughtering us with a Nathan Bassett for Matthew Collins and Brent Williams combination.

Excellent!! So Graz, why are we wasting our time with these useless high picks this year then?

All started on the rookie list.

So Hadley's officially now a w@nker then.

Anyone banging their heads against a brick wall over our current plight should have a look across the MCG carpark to Punt Rd. How Richmond can justify trading pick 19 for one of the softest players running around is beyond me. Had Melbourne made a similar deal, I would have been tempted to ring up sports talkback on the radio for the first time ever. Truly astonishing ineptitude from the Tigers brainstrust.

Miller has just re-signed for two years.

That's good news. There are huge question marks over our ruck division. If we're building for success in 3 or so years time, we're going to need at least one very good ruckman ready to go.

Diablo, I think it's natural for people to show some passion and loyalty for a loved player. As long as they continue to buy a membership I think it's good and perfectly understandable that they're upset. I'm feeling a bit long in the tooth over it despite understanding what Bailey and co are trying to achieve. I was on my way home from work last night listening to The Run Home, and what a nice change it was to have almost my entire drive home devoted to Melbourne as passionate Demons fans rang up about the trade. Provided we pick up a very good player at 14, the move will have been remembered as a positive one, and hopefully one which helps us reach the ultimate prize in4-5 years time.