rjay

Think you might be on the money there 'Bif'. It's a little like the argument Collingwood have been making to get Lou as a legend of the game. He is certainly a legendary figure of the game as is Jimmy but Jimmy has transcended the game with his outside work and influence. It's all a matter of definition in the end and even then there is still personal opinion as to that definition and who fits the criteria.

Thanks for your response 'Tassie', what is driving this prohibition policy? I have heard the US government puts pressure on other countries to hold some kind of prohibition model, is this correct and if so how do they get compliance?

'Robbie', I'm sure 'Tassie Devil' will be better placed to reply to your post but to my mind we already have a huge problem with drugs in our society on a par with alcohol and tobacco so the present approach isn't working. There also seems to be a vested interest in keeping the status quo, there is a lot of money to be made in illegal drugs plus there also seems to be a thriving prison sector that is being privatised built on the back of drug related crime. I'm interested in how we can make things better, what is the best approach. The one thing I know is that prohibition doesn't work, never has.

Definitely one of the great stories of the game but I'm with you on this, I couldn't rate him with the ones I've mentioned before.

Yep and even without the new inclusions this is where a lot of the improvement will come from, also add Silvia, Grimes, McDonald and Frawley to that list.

We shouldn't also forget their cosy relationship with the gambling industry and the cost of that to many peoples lives. A question for you 'tassie and biff', I've thought for a long while now that some form of legalisation would be best. With the newer drugs like 'Ice' I haven't come into contact much with users, I'm a bit out of that loop now. The media talks up the violence associated with some of these drugs, as a drug heroin causes issues for users to get the money and relationships with dealers so there is often crime associated with it and sometimes violent crime but the drug it self pacifies the user. The question is would some form of legalisation work for things like ice or would it create an even more violent society? I am aware of the problems alcohol as a legal drug causes as I was king hit from behind a few years back at a late night bottle shop but would legalising be a good option. You guys and 'WYL' seem to have a good handle on these issues so I'm interested in your opinions.

I may be wrong but I think I read somewhere that he was either injured or recovering from illness that ruled him out.

Me too mate, and they say stay clear and I will trade you your draft observers who more often than not go on second hand information and may or may not have seen him in the flesh for 2 dee supporters that have and 18 clubs. As for timid rovers if there is such a position in football anymore, Jack Viney says Hi!

If you had watched more than a highlight reel and maybe watched him over the course of a season or 2 like 'pennant st dee and demonWA' then I might put some credence in what you are saying. They are saying no (as is every club in the land) and I will trust their local knowledge on this. Love your passion for him as a player but I think you will find it is misplaced.

I wouldn't think so. As we've found young talent alone isn't enough and both are light on for senior players with the exception of Ablett at GC.

One of life's little mysteries that one.

Unfortunately it is for her, what a sad person she is.

I've probably said this before but when I first heard Mark Fine I was wondering why they let this yob on the radio but I persisted with him and find him a breath of fresh air, he has a touch of the common man about him and you've just gotta love it when he pays out on some dh on the final siren...so long as it's not you.

It's your opinion mate, not a disgrace either way. We all see things differently, it's only the word disgrace I have an issue with. One of the things that makes sport great are the differing opinions we have, it really makes this site hum along even when there are no games being played. You gotta love it.

You know what 'tona' I was going to let this slide but, no I'm not going to. I may not have played in the big league but I played and coached over 400 games of local football, no big deal but I loved every second of it, no money in it plenty of hard yards, training in 40 degree heat throwing my guts out making sure I could out run anyone over whatever distance even if i couldn't. It was all about playing with my mates and loving the game. Had the pleasure of catching up with some of them last Friday, it's just great to catch up with old team mates. I was one of those skinny kids, did some training with another skinny kid one summer when we were both trying to put some weight on, same size, same height only difference was he could really play, I was a battler, Fitzroy champ Gary Wilson may not mean anything to you and by the way in those days VFL players were not making money out of the game. The point is pretty much any kid that is brought up in Victoria would give their eye teeth to play AFL, these guys if they are prepared to put in are set up for life, so give me a break on the hard life they lead. You have no idea.

It's not great 'WYL' and I'm not sure it really gets people off in the long run, having been close to people who have had problems with drugs and I still am with some , also having a team mate pass away many years back now, well.....you know I can still see his face the last time I saw him, it took a while to register that it was him.

I wish I could have expressed it as well as you 'Pennant', well written post.

I would think running the country might be right up there. The problem is you just don't harm yourself, you take a lot of others down with you.

Funny enough I agree with you on the live and let live and don't think the AFL should be testing for non performance enhancing drugs at all, they've really opened up a can of worms with that one. If players want to screw up their lives it's their business as it is with any of us. Where you have it wrong is I haven't said anywhere in my post that I know for sure they are taking drugs, I was replying to 'tona's' post where he seems to think they have a reason too with the extra pressures they are placed under. I would argue that they are under no more pressure and indeed in many cases less pressure than the average man on the street. We then got onto the Garlett issue, I know you are pro Garlett from your posts, my point here is that off field issues are a problem at a club whether they be from alcohol, drugs, gambling whatever and you don't go and invite those problems if you can help it. I have no idea if Swan or Martin are on drugs, I really don't care but I do know they are both causing their clubs grief. We don't need any more of that. It's also interesting this issue has come up just when there has been talk of action on revenue sharing being more equitable, taking away the advantage a club like Collingwood has in big FD spends. This is the biggest issue in footy, the other is a huge social issue.

Come off it mate, drugs are an issue for all not just AFL players. By the sounds of your argument every player must be on drugs to survive their miserable existence, hardly and it's a long bow then to bring Garlett into the argument. I would have thought the Swan and Martin situations might have pushed you away from that one but it seems you haven't had to deal with someone with a drug problem. Lucky you, if you had you would know it's not just about having a little something every now and then, it gains a life of it's own and brings with it lies and deceit, unreliability, clouded thinking, all the things you don't need to have in a football club where you need to trust one another. I'm not running down what is involved in playing AFL these days but it is a charmed existence compared with what most do and earn. If you ask most people on here if they would like to work their regular job doing hard hours (9 to 5 doesn't exist anymore) with little time off, trying to look after their families, or would they like the lifestyle and income of an AFL footballer that could set them up for life what do you think they would say.

There is no doubt that these are the issues that turn her on and there will be a lot of denial but as many here know the issues she is talking about are real and as with society in general there seems to be no answer. It's a pity she has to name names with no real proof, just assumption, this is were she lets herself and the issue down.

Not boomer, Rob Harvey

Without actually knowing it pretty much seems to be the case, the loss of depth in his kicking was another sign that all was not right.

Find what you like, Barassi, Whitten, Skilton, Bartlett, Harvey, Voss, Carey, Mathews and the like are champions of the game. Neitz was a terrific Melbourne champion and if we had of been able to leave him at CHB he may well have risen further but in his true spirit he played the role the coach asked of him and sacrificed his own game. He was probably our last club champion.

Sorry guys, I agree with 'C&B and Ben' on this. In my mind the last true champion of the game we had was Flower, the others are club greats and we haven't had too many of them as of late either. Let's hope we uncover a few with this group.