rufus

Our lot would be 50 pts down vs Richmond by now with this level of physical pressure...this would be way too hard for us. Pretty impressed with Richmond...particularly their ability to improve vs. last year after looking like they were headed the other way...

And in respect to words...the talk on D'land last week about how good a bottom team Brisbane are is a perfect example of how deep the softness and excuses run at MFC. All the way through the supporter base. The effort vs. Brisbane was deplorable. And some of our senior players who were getting outmuscled by a bloke built like a praying mantis should have been dragges over the coles for it...it was fugging embarrassing. ..

Who gives a [censored] what is said now or who says it. It's all just words. But why anyone would be annoyed with Goodwin being absent is beyond me. As a coach of a pro sports team, he should reasonably expect the players to have enough pride to turn up with intensity in a game like that. It was the players who screwed this, not the coaches and not PJ. The problem with lack of effort is one that has existed fora long time. Roos couldn't change it and Goodwin won't be able to either. Hell the players used to pick and choose under Daniher and he was a renowned motivator. The change can only come from the playing group. Viney is the only one I've seen in recent memory with a chance of driving the change. Until then we are a soft and weak football club. Everyone knows it. Every opposition club gears themselves up for games against us becauae we are the most gettable sporting team going around.

Most disappointing thing is now I have to wait another year to see us turn up to a final with 50% intensity, get flogged and have everyone to say 'oh but it was their first final so they were overawed'. Was hoping to get that particular excuse out of the way this season. Oh well, those at the MFC get to keep that excuse up their sleeve for another year which will suit them quite nicely.

I remember reading on Demonland last year that someone had claimed to have a conversation with one of our players late in the season, and they had said they don't care about making the finals. They felt they had achieved enough out of the season and it wasn't a big deal. IF true, that to me says a lot about the care factor. Finals last year would have been huge for our CLUB. Finals this year would have made a huge impact on our brand and I believe it also adds bargaining power when trying to lure players to the club. And this is all ignoring what it might have actually meant to the individuals who have continued to show support over many lean years. At ground level, we didn't want to win as much as Brisbane did in the first half of last week. You could see at the start of the 3rd our intensity was markedly higher. How the actual F can that happen 2 weeks in a row when in a position of opportunity like we were? Would that happen at many other clubs? Last year, the shoe was on the other foot in that we entered the last round with nothing to play for. And yep, we rolled over for a tidy triple figure flogging... Whether we like it or not, clubs like Collingwood hold higher expectations of their playing group then the MFC do...

The 3 tackles in the first 20 minutes told me everything I needed to know about how much the club's success means to the group. If we fall into the finals we are going to get seriously flogged...not sure our players could handle the increased intensity Having said that, i do think 12 wins with this group is a monumental effort by Goodwin. We are bereft of any talent on the outside and currently have the weakest group of tall defenders I've seen during the last 30 years.

The contested marks are the biggest worry for me. We are building a competitive, effective midfield that COULD get us in a position to compete at the top in the next few years. However, we are going to miss our chance if we can't find one or even two reliable tall defenders who can be effective in a genuine one on one (and by effective I mean simply being able to half the contest). At the moment, if a team brings it in high and gets some isolation it feels like a score almost every time. Huge credit to Goodwin. To my mind, he has done a magnificent job getting us to 12 wins this year.

There doesn't look much between these sides at ground level. We simply aren't a finals side. Getting slaughtered in contests in the air. Need to fix our tall defender situation in the summer.

That was the best performance I have seen from the MFC in a long time (quite possibly this century). Not in terms of polish or execution but the intent was on a whole new level for this club. We pressured them, and even when they sparked up late in the second we lifted another gear in terms of intensity. As I once heard Scott Pendlebury say, AFL football is an effort sport. If your effort is where it needs to be, you can beat anybody and overcome structural and talent deficiencies. I will also say we got a good run from the umps, especially early. I may be biased but it felt very unusual. Maybe it was just because we were harder and lower and historically that has rarely been the case...

We are where we belong on the ladder. Near enough is good enough for the MFC. Recruiters have done a job of adding talent, however our tall defenders have to be the worst in the competition. Between the McDonalds and Frost we have zero ability to fulfil the number one criteria of being a defender (being able to defend).

Jeepers. Our guys (including Jones) are receiving the ball as if they are in Gosch's Paddock on a Tuesday. That's about the level on intensity they have brought. And this from a 'contender'. Only the MFC can struggle to understand what is required to back up week after week.

Fumbling and not tackling. Classic MFC when a team brings it physically.

That was a classic game of the better team vs. the better club. Better club won because they played with pride which unfortunately through all the changes at the MFC over the years has remained an issue. First quarter intensity was disgusting. Second half was decent. We were what we are and what we always have been:- Gettable for anybody who's prepared to come and be physical and make us really earn it.

During the last 10 minutes he:- - gave away a stupid free banging into a guys head while he went down to pick up the ball...You could see it unfolding like slow motion and you just knew he was going to give that free away. Zero excuses for it. - missed a simple opportunity to spoil a ball out of bounds that resulted in Riewoldt getting up and kicking a point (lucky). It was just a terrible effort in a contest. - conceded a 'contested' mark to Riewoldt in slippery conditions when he had him exactly where you want him...Without a good run at the ball. Three stinkers that you may see spread out across a season for good AFL defenders but we are treated to them in a 10 minute burst with the game on the line. This club should expect more and until we demand excellence we will continue to get what we've always got.

Agree with this. McDonald as a 2nd or probably 3rd defender may have a role but right now it's just plain scary. May would be a great target. Anyone lamenting the loss of Frawley is forgetting the effort he gave over the latter part of his MFC time...JH body language may be bad but it's not in the same league.

You could be right. Backline is better than ours. Mids are at least as good as ours. Forward line maybe not as flexible as ours but not far behind. One positive so far this season is that we appear to be removing effort as a major determining factor on results. There has been less white flag raising than previous years. There were a few pretty soft individual efforts tonight (which I feel confident will be addressed under this regime) but these are now more an exception than a rule...

It's not just tonight. The reality is he is a very poor one on one defender, a bad decision maker and his disposal is better not mentioned. His strength is floating across as a third man up but some days he constantly fumbles those uncontested opportunities too. Understand the nature of this sport is that there is very little depth to replace these kinds of players with, however we are looking at another player making a nice life for himself out of the MFC while seemingly not improving any of his deficiencies as his career progresses.

Geez bemoaning injuries and bad luck...again. We managed to get smashed by GWS at the MCG a couple of years ago when they didn't even have 18 players they could put on the ground. As long as Tom McDonald is playing in our defence we will never win a final.

What's the go with Jetta. Is it a low 'football iq' or is he under instruction to do differently to everyone else by making sure he walks back from the mark as slowly as possible and ensure he slows down the play as much as he possibly can when he gets the ball through a mark or free. Needs to show some urgency when he has the ball...at least to make the opposition players have to be more active.

Competitiveness. They have created a culture where they are expected to compete. We have seen 2 prelims won by teams that were just more hungry to win. I believe the Dogs have a lot of positional weaknesses but they make up for it with unrelenting effort. We will make a meaningful move up the ladder when the expectation of competitiveness at the MFC matches that of the current Dogs squad. Not just on the days when the ball is bouncing our way and thing are falling into place for us, but on the days where it's not.

Winner of Cats vs. Hawks has a very nice run to a flag IMO. You stop Dangerfield and Geelong have zero chance. A. Clarkson with 2 weeks to plan how to stop him will have my money 100% of the time. Reckon they are just an ordinary side but they have the best coach I've seen during my time watching footy, and we've seen what interstate sides generally serve up at the 'G when the heat is on. Still the Hawks for mine.

I feel we're in trouble with Goodwin. The players were still prone to raising the white flag under Roos, who apparently is one of the most respected coaches of recent years. Plus Goodwin has been here for many of these towel chucks and his presence doesn't seem to have changed much. Why would you take this job tough??? Nothing anybody does seems to be able to get these guys to show any pride in the club. Watch Essendon and Carlton finish above us next year, and Collingwood do so too once they move on Buckley.

MFC = Soft underbelly. Add as many contested ball winners as you like. If the ball isn't bouncing our way we roll over. It's in the fabric of this club. Over the last 2 weeks we lost any ability to talk players into coming to this club by selling them the idea that we are a changed club.

This will also cost us currency in terms of trying to attract quality players to the club. More proof that our players just don't want to compete at the level that is required in this competition.

On reflection you're absolutely right. If we wait another 2-3 years for our list composition to be similar to the Dogs I'm sure we'll be around the top 4 and competing for flags. Have never heard anyone suggest we just need time and to get some preseasons and games into our players before.