rufus

To see the Demons in another of these games, and to 'play like Demons' as Checker famously said, is (outside family things) something i want to see more than anything else. Unfortunately we are a number of years off. Watch the prolonged intensity of tonight's game and it will be hard to think of a time in recent years when we've competed at the required level for long enough. We have the talent to build towards this...just hoping somewhere along the line we can find the right mix of attitudes to drag our club to the promised land. Think it needs to start with a few years of relentless effort and competitiveness before we could be considered in the mix.

I think your comments here are spot on and I have felt that as a club we have been like this for a very long time. It's also why I see it as pointless bringing in experienced players from other clubs under the theory that we are in a position to have a crack at a flag. I reckon our players are so far off from showing the intensity and fight required for long enough to be a threat to anyone in big games that it'd be a complete waste. My view is we're better off moving on any player who isn't fully committed to doing what is required to turn this club around, along with those making big money and delivering very little, and going to the draft again (albeit a bad time to be doing that) in the hope that we eventually get a group together who are motivated to take responsibility for making this club good again.

Watching his efforts in the latter part of his time at Melb was my tipping point to give up my memberships and stop giving up my time to go watch games live. Was so disappointed with the club in general...i felt he should have been told to take the jumper off and leave on the spot. Understand that's not how it works as we had to try and hold some value for his departure, but i just thought that the disresepect to what should be treated as a privileged position was appaling.

Oliver is the one we need to keep more than anyone else...try to get him on a 5+ year contract and build around him. He is our best player. I hope/imagine he isn't wanting out because of a B&F finish. Also doesn't grab me as the kind of competitor who would give up and leave a club because of lack of success. Seems more likely to be someone who would want to drive the club forward. I don't know how others feel, but my perception of players who achieve ultimate team success with their original team is that they are very often held in higher regard than those who have swapped teams. It just seems to be a greater achievement. That goes for many different sports, not just footy.

Well done Lions. Have applied enough pressure to allow the game to be decided on talent...and they have plenty. Tigers have won a lot of games by pressuring more than their opponents...the Lions wore it and look the better team on pure talent.

Our players looked good for the few weeks we applied high level pressure to the oppo. Funnily the skills looked a lot better those weeks too. Then it got a bit hard and we gave it up. Every year the flag is won by the team that applies the most pressure for longer...our guys either don't get it or just don't want to do it. Had we made it to Perth next weekit would have been a s^%# show. We could just as easily have turned up with the white flag raised.

They've been put under physical pressure in this game...which has driven a lot of skill errors. Something we decided not to do against them or the Swans. Go figure.

Dogs look like they want to play finals...applying pressure and tackling. Hmmm...

We are finishing about where we deserve to finish on the season's efforts. Didn't see much of the game today but 26 tackles is a disappointing number...especially being -17 vs Essendon. If the tackle count was swapped we win by 60+ points. Eagles would be licking their chops if Freo knock off the Dogs...facing the team sitting dead last for tackles in a final won't raise too many concerns...

They sound like excuses, which ironically also fit in pefectly with the culture of the club. I'm not comparing Tom McDonald to me, I'm comparing his performances to senior players in similar age brackets from other clubs, which i would have thought is fair to do for a highly paid athlete. We should be getting a baseline performance that is at the least competitive and can contribute positively to the team. Unfortunately, I find it hard to think of many MFC players over the last 15 years, outside of Nathan Jones, whose performances saw a general upward trend through their peak ages. No idea exactly what the root cause is but if it doesn't change we are going nowhere.

Also joins a long list of MFC players who have gone backwards through their peak years. Do they get happy with themsleves, stop doing the work, then fall behind the pack? That would certainly fit in with the general culture of the club.

What are the chances we turn up for the fight tonight? Who knows really. GWS will look to pressure us for long enough...they will know our guys will toss it in if it gets really hard. If we bring the can't be f%$&#d's right from the start then it will get ugly.

If he wants to leave in part because he was replaced as captain then best for everyone that he goes. This club has long suffered from the interests of the individual being put before the team. If the club thought a change of captain was justified, then a good team player would cop it on the chin and get on with it. Any chance we have of meaningful cultural change starts with the dog taking back it's own tail.

Well we still have 2 more games to look forward to. I am excited to see if tackling lightly with one arm starts to work next week...they are getting better at applying the single arm each week so we might be near peaking. Also will be interesting to see if allowing the oppo to take the ball from full back to full forward without getting close to an opponent or applying any pressure starts to pay off...it seems a great approach so surely it will start to bear some fruit soon.

Spot on. Never has a group been more primed to roll over for a 10 goal hiding than our blokes next week. Just rolled over against 14th and 15th and now cop a team with something to play for. Yuck.

Rivers looks good but it is symptomatic of what this club is when he was extremely slow to get rid of it in the third, got run down, then jogged back to try and pressure the ball back from Freo. A typical effort from an MFC player. And it is constantly accepted by all.

Outhustled by 14th and 15th on the ladder. Looked to have the requisite intensity for the last 5 minutes. Bizarre. Forget Goodwin...those blokes got beat by a group who wanted it more than them.

Was poor again. Consistently rucking from behind at throw ins. Why? I guess the one time he played in front he let his opponent grab it out of the ruck and kick a goal which was nice. Problem is we have no choice. Look at May, numerous times giving up contested marks in conditions that couldn't be better for a backman.

Maybe if we let them stroll uncontested from one end to the other one more time it might result in something good for us...worth trying i guess because it's an excellent tactic.

If only AFL games were awarded to the team with the most missed one handed tackles...we would be undefeated and headed for a flag

Yeah they are harder at it than us. We like to think we are good at the contest but they look significantly better than us. Gawn having a shocker. Needed skipper to stand up when it counts. Those goal square goals are nothing but a lack of desperation to not conceed...

Getting beat in a lot of 50/50's true to form. 19 tackles in a half of a game where the ball isn't able to flow. About what was expected.

The thing is, in 2018 we were hard in and around the contest. But evidently we weren't competitive enough. We turned up to a prelim final with the can't be bothered's...it was always going to be hard to win and evidently our guys didn't want a part of the required scrap. Soft probably isn't the right word, but winning titles in any sport at almost any level isn't going to be easy. It takes a lot of individual sacrifice (players accepting lesser roles, players missing out on selection on a needs basis but being ready to step in when required, a want to contribute even when having a bad game by providing competitiveness and pressure on your opponents). Our guys look good when the going is good, but when things turn against them there is a real propensity to raise the white flag with this group.

They're right...and it feels like hope is starting to fade for the club to ever change the attitude to competing. I mean, you watch the St Kilda game and yeah it was good to win, but it looks like the players got as carried away with it as Demonland did. When you watch that game back, so much of the way we executed basic skills was lazy. Those saying we might be short on quality and depth may well be right...but we didn't lose on Thursday to the Swans or to the extent we did to Port earlier in the season because of our talent or depth. Those results were born out of a straight up lack of competitive intent. Sitting 18th for tackles is a damning indication of how desperate this group is to be successful. The clear inability for this playing group to drive the change that is required at the club is why I would have no issues with us moving on from almost any player other than probably Gawn and Oliver to bring in new blood and see if new blood can drive the club's future upwards.

I guess we shouldn't complain. There's been plenty of times over the years when we've been a bottom 4 team, with no shot at finals, playing against a team sitting in the top 8 and we've knocked them off with pure grit and grind. Hmmm...actually I don't remember that ever happening (and there's been plenty of times we've been bottom 4 with our season shot at this stage). A sporting club with zero pride.