Macca

We are not switched on and it is a player & coaching issue So change is inevitable

I never advocated trading out all 6. You've once again misinterpretted what I actually said Those 6 were candidates only and I talked about 3 or 4 of the 6... not all of them Do you actually read my posts properly? I know they are a bit long sometimes but twice now you've misread what I've said

That could easily change Last season, myself and a few others here were advocating snagging 2 picks in the top 10 ... and it happened The old group isn't going to win our next flag where as a new group of players can win our next flag So we need to let go of the past and start afresh (that could be with a new coach as well) If players absolutely want out, let them go but trade aggressively

You've edited my post and therefore taken my comments out of context So what we could end up doing is being caught up in a rebuild of sorts if 2 or 3 particular players are looking elsewhere at seasons end So by default, without our club initiating proceedings, we can end up in a rebuild of sorts So I'm not advocating cutting to the bone as Richmond have done at all That's you misinterpreting what I've actually said The 2 or 3 players in question are Petracca, Oliver & Kozzie. And there's a chance there might be a couple more lesser lights wanting out ... after all, over the last few seasons we've lost Harmes, Hogan, Baker, Jordon, Bedford etc etc All players have a certain value so we could end up holding a number of picks in the 2025 draft, not necessarily by our design So no need to panic as trading players is a part of the sport Right now, would any of us here not entertain the thought of receiving at a minimum, 2 first round draft picks for either Petracca, Oliver or Kozzie? (actually, 6 first rounders in total if all 3 take off) That's some bounty

Mazu now running on Tuesday after the Saturday meeting was abandoned Same race and same number but the dividend is now 5.50/2.20 (it's a Heavy 9 track I'm still on it

Regardless of the make-up of the team we have to change the way that we play. Pronto But it's not going to be easy as it needs a total buy-in and a new faster, direct and efficient style of offense is a big departure from how we've gone about it previously We practised the new style in the off-season after trying it out in season 2024 and Goodwin is also talking about it now as well To me it's about the big 3 ... Oliver, Petracca & Viney. If we can get those 3 to change, the rest can follow Goodwin has X amount of games to turn this ship around. But if he can do it, he might save his career How many games? I reckon we're going to have to see a change within the 4 games after the Cats clash Snag 2 or 3 wins in that time frame with a quicker and more direct style and we'll be off and running There's also a real chance that we do change (with a buzzing offense) but continue losing

See ball, get ball? At least we'd know that he'd put his body on the line. Front & centre could easily be his go I reckon it's worth a try especially if this season turns out to be a non-finals year and we thus become a team that is looking to the future But can he be productive as a midfielder for the next 4 years? Right now, that looks a big ask

Viney could play as a small forward, down the track Petracca is more suited as a floating half forward type rather than playing out of the goal square (which is now part of the congested zone these days) Nice to see Turner bounce back with 5 goals for Casey, that's what you want to see Max will need help and that help may not be far away. But do we play a 2nd ruck or use JVR or AJ more in the ruck? As for the trade table, it's comforting to know that Taylor has the Midas Touch with regards to the draft So if we lose 2 or 3, I'm not too concerned. Players come and go but to me it's always about the team With further future picks coming into vogue, we can keep going back to the well And sooner or later, in season trading will eventuate We are actually in a strong position with regards to trades. So unless we get what we want, we can hold players to their long term deals Picks 2 or 3 years in advance is something we need to get used to. I reckon that new way of trading will help facilitate trades Here's how I see our future forward line (maybe later this season) If JVR & Turner can become productive forwards, the forward line doesn't look too bad HF ... Fritsch ... JVR ... Petracca/Kozzie F ... Viney/Chin ... Disco/AJ ... Melksham

Yes, there's been just too much noise from the 2 aforementioned players for it not to be realistic outcome But that's ok, you turn it into a positive with the best in the business at identifying young talent (Jason Taylor) And you are right, things can turnaround very quickly especially if all the trading goes to plan You let go of the past and work at the future I'm already looking forward to the new-look team as I don't believe the old group has another flag in them anyway ... 2022 & 2023 was our chance at a 2nd flag (with the same group) Flags are not easy to win and sometimes you have to start again

Oh yeah, the Blues were great back then and their mosquito fleet would be great today As for the Demons, I reckon we've started drating for the future with the 4 first round draft picks in the last 2 off-seasons The net worth is already starting to show especially if the Kolt can get a good run at it. The other 3 all look like they can play to a good level And if a few players want out that have good trade value, trade aggressively I say and get good value coming back Sentiment? Nah, it's all about the team Before we know it, we'll have a new-look team with loads of new talent

@DeeSpencer has some interesting thoughts on how the 2 or 3 deep forwards are used these days (across the league) Often used as decoys and used to create more space across half forward by deliberately taking defenders away from the open space But again, why our Match Committee hasn't addressed our forward line being constantly crowded is baffling It's fairly obvious that it has to be slow ball movement further afield and our obsession with going forward, via the cape That largely explains all the long bombs because why would a midfielder try to pinpoint a pass to a mass of bodies?

If we continue on this trajectory of losing by big margins along with a lowly spot on the ladder, does it then follow that Petracca & Kozzie will request trades? And there might be a couple more (you'd hate to be a forward in our forward line) So what do you get for those 2 aforementioned? 3 or 4 first round picks in the 2025 draft? Along with the 4 first round draft picks in the last 2 seasons that amounts to a lot of picks and by default, a rebuild of sorts (at least)

But what do you do when players like Petracca & Kozzie are looking elsewhere? (and there might be 2 or 3 more looking for greener pastures ... players these days are now openly requesting trades) The trade table ends up being an inevitable outcome. So if both are on the move, don't you want value back? And Oliver? Went off the rails for 2 years but still happily took the $2.8Million What value did we get from Oliver in 2023 & 2024. Would you be happy paying someone that much money for a negligible return? I'll bet not So the circumstances are vastly different to 2007 to 2013 when we went mad on youth and shipped all our experience out If you think it's just the coach (Goodwin) you're wrong. The players look disinterested and they are playing selfish As previously stated, don't let the players off the hook In fact what happens is that when a coach does get sacked it pleases the angry mob for a short time until the next loss ... then the players cop it (from the same angry mob) Rinse & Repeat

JVR might be getting specialist coaching for all we know, but it would be nice to see how he'd go in an open forward line (which I'm not sure he's ever seen as our forward line has remained crowded since the start of the 2022 season) We've got a lot of work to do in order to contend again ... and just sacking the coach isn't going to fix things (IMV) Lots of issues and a lot of those issues can only be achieved at the trade table (Leg speed, foot and hand skills, KPF's, KPB?, Max Replacement, Marking power, Goal kicking power etc etc) Our strength is our backline & midfield quality and depth. In fact, those 2 areas very nearly won us 2 finals in 2023 (our forward line was almost completely decimated by injury in 2023) The big watch is on Petracca & Oliver. At various times both have been top 10 in the league. If we see that again then why would we trade them?

Fantastic news! And with Langford showing his wares yesterday, we can look forward to both players excelling in the colours (this season)

I'm not sure anyone here wants to trade McVee (was that a typo, Roost it?) But we can't lay all the blame at the feet of Goodwin. So if it's the players and the coach then we'll need some sort of clean-out And that means revamping the list in my view There's a good chance that we can trade aggressively and improve the list But to do that you have to give up a bit For me it's always about the team ... individuals come 2nd

There are shades of 2012/2013 right now but it's only shades of. The coach copping all the blame with the players being unable to think for themselves. Sound familiar? Back then our list was devoid of talent where as in the present day we've got loads of good players (playing an outdated style) Ball movement slow and via the cape. Constant fumbling. Working for stoppages mainly along the boundary line. A refusal to use the corridor etc etc You'd love to be a fly on the wall for the team meetings. What is being said and if we are trying to change our style, what is it? @waynewussell made mention about how we trained in the pre-season with fast ball movement criss-crossing at angles heading into the forward line So where is it? Is it a muscle-memory issue with our players? No buy-in?

JVR might be best suited as a tall, high-half forward type I don't see him as a deep key position forward as because that position is only reserved for the exceptionally good in today's footy, JVR just doesn't have the hands or the nouse (right now at least) But the slow delivery forward and long bombs forward has stifled the development of all our marking forwards anyway For instance, Ben Brown was reduced to spoiling the ball towards the end of his career (as a result of the constant bombing) And Brown was a lead-up marking type when at his best. But lead-up marking in our forward line? Does it ever happen?

Different types of players but bombing the ball on top of the heads of our forwards can & does effect the productivity of any of our forwards So if JVR gets off the hook then so should Fritsch. But right now, neither player is winning enough of their own ball anyway If anything, the connection between our mids and forwards is actually getting worse. It's a dogs breakfast A clean out/revamp/do-over ... take your pick, we've been left behind from the modern trends Fast ball movement forward with exquisite foot and hand skills is what is required and we are miles away from achieving that And the fumbling!!! We'd be winning that stat, BoBo!

Wow, those are damning stats All the more reason to revamp our midfield with a do-over Of course, we've already started doing so with the acquisition of Tholstrup, Windsor, Lindsay, Langford along with Sharp & Billings as back ups As well as using Kozzie at the stoppages periodically So the above is not so much a coincidence but a plan that will take a bit of time

Yeah I wouldn't be giving up on JVR (unless we got a really good offer) He's still playing like a 1st or 2nd year player and I'd be pushing him up into the play as a CHF type with a license to roam (a bit like how T-Mac used to play as a forward) Create a bit of space for himself But in the meantime, some specialist coaching wouldn't go astray

Doesn't relish the front position and doesn't know where or how to lead Doesn't read the play well or the ball trajectory for that matter He actually needs to be coached properly on how to play as a key forward by a specialist coach who has played the position He could be ok but he needs coaching I find it a bit odd that excuses are made for JVR but not for someone like Fritsch And a good forward wins his own ball

Yes, but I doubt that Salem would be a tradable type as he's too old to get much in return. He'd be more of an off-load (and a keeper for mine) Where as the others I listed are a lot younger or are top players (when at their best) Sparrow - early 2nd rounder Rivers - Late 1st rounder JVR - Some club will want him, late 1st rounder? Fritsch - Again, some clubs will want him but he is 29 next season. Early 2nd rounder Oliver - 2 x 1st round picks (but will they pay up) Petracca - 2 x 1st round picks (again, will they pay up) That's a cleanout but what are we getting in return right now? I'd say overall - bog average It's not just the coach

Well the keepers (for now) include players such as Max, Viney, Salem, Petty, Lever, May, Langdon, Kozzie*, Bowey, Chandler and a few others As well as our younger crop of players who will be more experienced in 2 years time ... Langford, Lindsay, McVee, Mentha, Tholstrup, Windsor etc etc And if we trade big time, we can add about 7 or 8 first or 2nd round draft picks from the 2025 draft Sounds fanciful but is it? We just seen Richmond do it and in overseas sports, huge off-season trading is commonplace So the tradeables could be Oliver, JVR, Petracca, Rivers, Fritsch & Sparrow. It won't be all of them but maybe 3 or 4 So if we want a clean-out and a rebuild that's what the club has to do A new coach with the current group might see more of what we're seeing now The club needs a shake-up *Kozzie is a keeper

Yes, we need to get a decent offer for Petracca otherwise he is more value staying (so long as he can turn things around) I wouldn't be giving Collingwood a leg-up. Or any team for that matter You don't strengthen a rival whilst weakening your own position Same story for Oliver and a few others. We'll need to get true value coming back So trade aggressively For the right offer, I'd trade both Oliver & Petracca Kozzie is a keeper, so a super-offer would have to be presented If West Coast want to give us a first rounder for JVR, I'd take it in a heartbeat and use that pick towards a proper key forward. van Rooyen can't read the play, nor can he read the trajectory of the ball. He looks like a fish out of water most of the time. Right now, he's a liability Fritsch might want out too as we've made it darn near impossible for him to excel, with our shoddy disposal forward of centre. To be fair, his last 2 games have been much improved We need a cleanout and a rebuild (of sorts) Similar to what Richmond have done And we need to do it now as future drafts post 2025 are going to be compromised Face it, it would take a minor miracle for us to play finals this season so we might as well start planning for the future Sparrow & Rivers could also be traded if the right offers came our way. Neither of those 2 use the ball well. Bombs away If we can bring in around 3 or 4 first round picks and 3 or 4 2nd rounders for the 2025 draft, we can rebuild this team ... but that means a bit of a cleanout Somewhere in all that mix, well need a fully fledged ruckman to replace Max (Jackson?) Do all that and we can contend again from 2027 onwards