Hannabal

You're right, Todd would be the last. Some supporters think Tingay was hard, but he was a rung below my expectations. I have high hopes that McLean, Jones, and Bartram can redress the balance.

My take is that it's been so long since the MFC has produced truly hard one on one contested footballers who can not only withstand finals pressure but thrive in it that our supporters have lost sight of what's really hard. And if I want to go back 5 years, 10, or 30 I will. My other take is that 'Bails' got rid of Godfrey because ...... wait for it...... he's not good enough. Wow. And Matty Lapin wasn't 'tough'. We clearly see our footy differently. I'm happy to leave it at that.

True Scoop, and that's why courage is different to 'hard'. Many courageous players aren't necessarily 'hard'. As for Junior ? I agree Old, not overly hard. I was trying to give an example close to home, but in truth, there's probably not much difference between the two and it's not a great example.

Hmmm The truly truly 'hard' footballers for me, and I agree it's subjective, are the players that are continually first to the contested ball. Players like Matthews, Voss, Williams, Kelly and recently Judd, Kerr, West, Black, Riccuito and even our own Junior. They're hard. I've never associated Godfrey as being a first dibs footballer. Now you may say that it's his lack of skill and not effort that's procluded him from consistently getting his hands first on the ball, but for me, he just hasn't been that hard. He's ok and far better than many in the hardness stakes to wear the red and blue, but he wasn't overly hard or 'tough' by my evaluation. Each to their own.

Let's get this straight. Just because Godfrey had a head that made an unloved trailer proud didn't make him tough. Now I'm not saying he was soft, but he won't go down in my hardness stakes.

They've delisted who they perceive to have absolutely no trade value. More will follow before the cut off.

Not good enough. Too slow.

Let's recognise their entire careers. They both played over 100 games of footy.

Well done to Ward and Godfrey. I'd have given my left one to play one game. Rightfully, they'll be proud of their achievements. That said, it's the right decision, albeit a year or two too late. Supporters that are disappointed clearly have a different agenda to our new coach. He's after success.

He has floating bone in the groin - that's 'bone' . It will only be fixed by an operation, but he'll be fine. Don't ask me how I know, but I know.

G'day Rot. I've missed you How's Betty Spag ? Still tracking square ?

He doesn't.

It's no gamble. He needs an operation, but the club has taken the view that an injured Judd is more value than young Morton. The merits of that debate isn't the issue. He'll be fine after the operation. He doesn't have OP.

What is your diagnosis of Judd's injury Bub ? That's the critical question. And rest isn't the solution.

Much appreciated KJ. Great effort !

Graz, I also doubt that you and I would agree on much, though I'm sure that won't cost you sleep. And as far as Rono goes ? I like him. Always have. I don't always agree with his views, but I like supporters that challenge the status quo. I just don't get supporters that accept less than premiership success. And I am often embarrassed to support this club. It's just the way it is. But I live on in hope that we'll succeed in finding the Holy Grail. It's what keeps me going. It's also why I love young players coming into the team, as our hopes rest in youth. It's also why I dislike the fact that we, as a club, haven't turned our list over quickly enough. Too many players that were never going to take us to a flag remain on the list. If my kids changed clubs tomorrow, and they are young enough to, I'd not put up much of a fight - depending upon who they chose. Although, I hasten to add that I don't encourage this. You see, I don't understand the Warren Dean type supporter, and nor does he understand me. I don't enjoy barracking for this club year after year without premiership success. Look, I know it's too late for me to jump off, and I've had too many fights defending this hack club's honour over nearly 40 years, but I still don't get how the average supporter is so tolerant of a club that doesn't win premierships. My favourite player is Robert Flower, but you may be surprised to know my second all time favourite is Michael Voss. And he didn't even play for my club. My favourite football memory was being at the Western Oval in round 22, 1987. How pathetic is that ? My favourite footy memory isn't even a final. Either I'm off my nut, or Melbourne supporters have grown accustomed to not succeeding. They enjoy their footy and if a flag came great, but if not it's ok. Well, I just don't get that mentality. I'd like to look back and celebrate Demon premierships over a beer. Currently I celebrate nothing. Maybe one day a few players may take over Voss' mantle. But they'll need a medal around their neck. I cringe when there's discussion about the best Demons team you've seen. Or the best 80's or 90's side. Or who the best players were. It's cringeworthy because we're so far behind just about every other club in the competition. You may have great memories Graz, and so may Warren, but I don't. I can't celebrate anything other than what drives this competition. Flags. It's just the way it is. (And thanks for the father's day wishes.)

I suspect we'd agree on little. Especially when I look at your bio of favourite players. It explains much.

We're where we are because we haven't won a flag in 43 years. We lack supoport because we hardly won a game in the 1970's. How long ago was Fitzroy's last flag ? It explains their demise. Why did South move to Sydney ? Their lack of success. Success breeds success. Winning breeds winning. And then you talk about my favourite chestnut, "respect". I couldn't give a rat's toss bag about 'respect'. I couldn't care less what the general footy community thinks of my club, because, you know what, if you're winning the rest follows. @#$% respect. How often do I hear our players talk about regaining respect at the beginning of a season ? Way too often is the answer. Win games of footy and you'll have all the respect you crave. I too have children. Two boys - 6 and 7. One wore his Dees guernsey all day after Auskick. But if I thought that they'd be no flag for them by the time they're my age I'd tell them to follow another team. If you're not winning flags, or puting yourself in a position to win them, then you're wasting the competitions time. And you'll end up like Fitzroy, or South. So is my love of the MFC qualified ? Absolutely. It's not unconditional. Any relationship is a two way street. A flag has to be the unwavering goal. I'm glad you don't run the club Warren. It's softys like you that have got us in this position. It's not a lack of marketing. It's a lack of winning. And why haven't we won ? Because we're too pleased with second best and just satisfied existing, so your children have a club to support when they're your age. Big deal. There are 15 others.

Only a simpleton would try to simplify the generational support of VFL clubs. I'll try to dumb it down for you. Clubs that entered the competition in the 1920's will always be at a disadvantage. Their generational support is clearly behind foundation clubs and always will be. And in a 10 team state the problems won't be going away. Hence your love of marketing. But marketing won't change history. Sheeds has done marvellously at Essendon because he combined winning with marketing, but make no mistake, without winning and flags his tenure would've finished 20 years ago. It's his 4 flags that give him cred. Why do you think that he refers to his flags just about every time he opens his gob. You've earned a doctorate in the bleeding obvious to suggest that clubs need good marketing. But the best marketing in the world won't help an uncompetitive organisation. Facts are, winning games of footy, in the business of footy, is paramount. It's (obviously) not to say that it shouldn't be coupled with a great administration as success on the field can be short lived, and one usually follows the other, but there's no greater way to ensure longevity in this competition than winning games of footy. Btw, if I thought that this club wasn't going to win a flag in my lifetime then I'd quit being a supporter right now. It's that hope that keeps my fires burning. If you're not in the business of winning games of footy and flags then you may as well turn up your toes. Many supporters are different and won't understand, nor appreciate, my view, but winning flags is all that cuts it with me. The infamous 'journey' means jack schitt without the most inspiring of memories. As I'm too young to savour our most recent success it goes without saying that I've only had a couple of truly great footy memories. And they're 20 years ago. Basically, my entire footy journey is void of decent memories. Celebrating the Ray Biffins of this world is the highest level for most readers on here, and it just doesn't cut it with me. Celebrating Garry Lyon's career doesn't cut it for me, or Tingay, Jakovich, Viney, or, dare I say, Warren Dean. The marketing aspect of any club is (obviously) important, but for me, it's about winning. Until we change our mindset as supporters we'll cry over lost opportunities to recruit the Kevin Sheedy's of this world rather than embrace the possibility of improving our list with the latest breed of great young coaches that hopefully will provide the best opportunities to win games of footy. Like Kevin showed all those years ago. You stick to marketing and I'll crave my flag.

Mate, it's a simple fact of sporting life that the best way to market the club is by winning games.

Would they still be at Arden St in their present form if they'd never won those two flags ? Not to mention the exhaltation of the experiences borne. Afterall, if you're not in the hunt for flags you're taking up too much space.

I'd rather trade Bruce than TJ. That said, I'd virtually embrace trading anyone if it improves our list. It's not like we're talking about trading premiership players now, are we. But as has been alluded to, if correct, Bailey's right. Ninety per cent of any lists improvement will come through the drafts, not trade week.

I don't joke often As far as Demon players go he was ok, and certainly all you describe. That said, I want far better.

I'm only interested in winning games of footy and appointing the best candidate for developing our list. The rest follows. Sponsors and supporters want winners. Two time premiership coach Dennis Pagan had supporters of that club in raptures 6 years ago. Look where it got them. Like you, I've followed the Dees since the 1970's and I want success. I'm also rapt in Bailey's appointment. Let's hope we recruit far better footballers than your namesake.

Get &^%#@! Great source you had pal.