Hannabal

And what did Akermanis get traded for last year ? Anyone thinking that an under achieving talent turning 28 in his 11th season was worth more than pick 14 in the way clubs currently go about drafts is dreaming. That said, there's many of those around here.

So you say Hine has "done better". And Hine has "done a reasonable job at Collingwood". And yet he's done these marvels by the very parameters you disallow Cameron. You don't allow CAC's last 2 drafts to be used as criteria, yet they are soley the measure you are using to favourably judge Hine's performance. I'll let readers form their own view. Needless to say, you haven't done yourself any favours. Btw, the only "facts" of mine with which you disagree is my .... um difference of opinion. Well, you're right on one thing. It's done.

With what do you disagree ? Rather than a general "you rate CAC's performance better than mine" type answer, tell me what I've written that you find incorrect. And if it's just my rating of Bate, Jones, Bartram as "successes" then your clutching at you know what. Be specific in your answer. Also, ever going to answer the Hine question ?

Why did you waste your time highlighting who was taken in 2001 ? It's been conceded that that was a horrible year for us. No convincing was required. I'm sure 2001 wasn't part of Old's "homework". As for 2002 ? Smith was a dud, but Rivers gives CAC a pass. Just. That said, the players you list are underwhelming in the extreme. Let's just accept it was a terrible draft, probably the worst. Malceski being the pick of the later selections. One can't make chicken salad out of chicken [censored].

I'm feeling old

I'd like Tenace.

f is harsh for 98, but Robocop was a dud. So based on the one 'live' pick that failed d is far more reasonable. I'll edit my post.

Unlike you, Warren, I like to use my eyes when making a judgement call on players and if I'm proven to be wrong so be it. There's no doubt already that Bate and Jones are successful draft picks. My eyes tell me this. They also tell me that Bartram is a success. His disappearance from the team this year affected us greatly. You can 'keep the jury out' on these players while I enjoy their burgeoning talent. We're still paying for the 2001 draft and in isolation it was terrible. But I also recognise that CAC's recruiting in the last 4 years is almost without peer. And yes, I want success, and I doubt anyone on here has ever called me "easily pleased", but perhaps I have the ability to balance my thoughts with expectations. He's had 2 dud drafts in 9 (1998 and 2001) - last year is too early to call. Two of those drafts were in his first five years. Like many of us, Craig, I suspect, is better at his craft now than 6-10 years ago. Now I could keep beating him over the head for those early drafts, and CAC and I have shared some interesting interludes over the years (perhaps you're a little too much of a Johnny come lately to have read them) but it would be unfair to keep dragging him over the coals without recognising the considerable success he's had recently. You mention Derek Hine as being a success. How long has he been Collingwood's recruiter ? As you say, under Noel Judkins the fith had a horrible recruiting record. You want to disregard the last 2 drafts but I've a suspicion that they're the only 2 drafts Hine has participated in. Judkins was in charge during the McLean/Sylvia draft and that's where you start your analysis. I look forward to revisiting this discussion in 12 months. 1997 - b 1998 - d 1999 - a+ 2000 - b+ 2001 - f 2002 - c 2003 - a 2004 - b+ 2005 - b+ (could become an a)

Let's examine the recruiting. In fairness to the players involved we will disregard the last couple of drafts as it is either too early to tell or players have already exited the club, e.g Heath Neville. So we'll start at 2003 and work our way backwards. Recruited Sylvia at 3, McLean at 5, traded for Holland for pick 20 and got CJ under father-son. Read preseason and Davey off the rookie. ATM - Sylvia - disappointing; McLean - promising but has been injury prone (not CAC's fault); Holland - serviceable; CJ - hasn't come on; Davey - a bargain; Read - gone! It's unreasonable to “disregard” the last two drafts when 2 of those players finished in the top 3 in the most recent B&F ! It's not too early to call Jones or Bate a success. I suggest your decision to “disregard” the last two drafts was self serving. Getting back to 2003, you say that “Sylvia is disappointing”, yet other than Waters, Peake, Adcock, and Butler there's arguably no other players from this draft (save McLean) that have shown anything. It's shaping up as one of the most disappointing drafts there's been. In light of this, together with Sylvia's promise, and recognising that he's yet to do a preseason, it's a pick that is certainly not without merit. And we may look back lauding the decision. With McLean and Davey it's a very good draft. 2002 - Bell at 14 - showing some good signs; 426 at 15 - gone; Rivers at 26 - gun rest - gone! Once again, have a look at the players after Smith. The cupboard is almost bare. Have you studied the players chosen after Smith ? Bell and Rivers ensure this draft is a success. 2001 - the superdraft - guys like Dal Santo went after we picked (wait for it) Molan at 9 - gone; Steve Armstrong at 25 - gone; Aaron Rogers at 26 - gone; the only bloke left on our list from that draft - Miller at 55. No argument. It's a disaster. 2000 - nobody left - best was Thompson at 16 - now gone; the rest were rubbish who went within 2 years. You must learn more about the history of our drafts, Warren. Thompson was a brilliant get at 16 and our next pick in 2000 was 62 due to draft penalties. This draft should only be judged on our only real "live pick" and it was excellent. 1999 - CAC's best draft and ironically the year we lost our first round pick due to draft penalties. Green at 19; Wheatley at 20; Whelan at 50 and Bruce at 64 as well as Godfrey in the preseason. Clark never made it. Yes, a great draft considering the draft penalties. I'm not going to review every recruiter and no doubt some are very good, but you'll find that in the last 5 years Craig's work stacks up against any recruiter. I'm also not going to continue to judge CAC on drafts from 8/9 years ago. Whilst I'll no longer hang him for 2001, I'll also stop the plaudits for 1999. It's too long ago now and really no longer relevant. The art of recruiting has changed immensely in the last few years and Craig has far more experience. Yes CAC needs a "star" and of that he's well aware. It's easy to cherry pick, but if you look deeper a story starts emerging. I'm very satisfied with Cameron's recent performances.

From the waist down he looks a little like Travis, but with hairy legs. He's got that bandy legged thing happening. Hope that helps.

Terrible thread.

Brave and slow. A good VFL player, but not AFL standard. Won't get picked up. A good decision.

Yes.

Schneider and Dempster are both good players. The Saints have done very well.

I said it "summed up his career".

Go no. 16

I have no respect for God given talent. None. He didn't work hard for his talent, he was born with it. In fact, he hasn't made the most of it. I respect those that make the best of their genetical makeup. I wanted Godfrey delisted but I have tremendous respect for what he achieved. Barassi was very hard on the gifted players because he expected so much more from them. So, do I have an appreciation for what Johnstone gave the MFC ? No. He's done himself a disservice. He had so much more to give.

The day that best sums up Travis for me was the second semi final against Adelaide in 2002. Melbourne had been pumped in the first quarter and faced an almighty deficit of 40 points. Enter Travis Johnstone and one of the most sublime 2 quarters you’ll ever see. By ¾ time and 4 deft Johnstone goals we were 22 points in front with a prelim beckoning. I was exhilarated and finally celebrating the talents of our no. 1 pick. Then the last quarter. It went pear shaped, horribly. Johnstone was spent. In fact, he inexplicably walked off as we were wilting. Needless to say, we lost. Johnstone has teased the MFC and its supporters for 10 years. It’s too long. We’ve marvelled at his vision, at his footy brain, the way he made a forward lead to where he wanted them to, his slow motion movement whilst confusing those around him, and, of course, the effortless pinpoint passes from those soft feet. But it was all too little too often. I look back at how quickly those 10 years have gone. I first saw him ‘hoover’ the ball against Sydney in a night game in NZ early ’98. The talent was there for all to see, but ultimately, it's always been “next year” for Travis. Coincidentally, this mirrored the MFC's roller coaster. Finally, he was diagnosed as lactose intolerant. I thought “great”, now TJ will get his body right next preseason and we’ll see the difference. And we did for a year. But here we are with Johnstone about to enter his eleventh AFL year and we’re still talking about that ‘potential’. More intriguingly, some supporters are baffled by his departure, “how could we let such a talent go?” they cry, and “he’s worth more than pick 14”. But instead I ask, “why are those supporters so easily pleased" ? And why are MFC players so easily pleased ? Put simply, Melbourne players don’t hurt enough. They don’t burn for success. They go through the motions. It’s a soft culture down at Melbourne and things need to change. The facts are Travis is lazy and half committed. But that's ok by those seduced by the occasional cameo. The continuous soft tissue injuries also seem to escape his defenders. Johnstone is 28 next year and enters his 11th season. Ten years have yielded two top 10 B&Fs. He has massively underperformed. Nathan Jones in his second year finished second in the B&F. How embarrassing for Johnstone. We all know that Travis is an ‘elite talent’, but he’s never been an ‘elite player’ in the AFL. He’s never made AA. He’s never been ‘rated’ in AFL circles as one of the games best. He’s never been rated like Harvey, Kerr, Black, Lappin, West, Cousins, or Judd. He should have been. With Travis it’s always been about his ‘potential’. Well I’m sick of finishing second best and sick of the adoration of an unfulfilled talent. I’m sick of Melbourne supporters accepting this under performing, culturally corrosive, waste of talent . I’m sick of excuses. I’ll back Craig Cameron to draft a 150-200 game player with pick 14. TJ has about 50-60 games left. Go on to the thedrafter.net website and you’ll see that their rating system has Melbourne second to only Geelong over the last 5 years. After Cameron’s annus horribilus in 2001 he has hardly missed a beat. Bate, Bartram, Dunn, Bell, McLean, Newton, Petterd, Jones to name a few. Look at who we’ve picked on draft day during this period and who’s gone later and you’ll be impressed by our decisions. I’d say no club has done better. I had high hopes that TJ would be our next Robbie Flower, but I stopped deluding myself years ago. I’ll back the MFC in their agenda to recruit the best new talent possible to compliment our impressive under 23’s. And I’ve no doubt we’ll stick to a no d!ckhead policy. Travis is gone. It was time. And like that final in 2002 against Adelaide, ‘if only’. Well done MFC.

Sooorrr... I can't quite say it. I've been out to dinner and was thinking this thread was about Craig Bolton. I was wrroooo

They wouldn't do Green for Bolton as a stand alone, let alone pick 11 Bolton has been AA. What are you on ?

Old news.

"2" ? I'm losing interest. Fast.

I rated Hadley very highly a couple of years ago. He hasn't been the same since he got injured. Definitely worth a look.

I disagree. He shirks far too many contests.

Johnson is too soft. I'd trade him in a heartbeat.