deejammin'

I largely agree with you that it’s possible the club is saying no and Geelong and Clayton’s management are still trying. They are welcome to present offers, I don’t think anyone has a problem with that, I also think MFC’s public statements have gone so far now that there’s no way it can happen, regardless of the offer but let’s see. The Derksen Oliver comparison is pretty erroneous though. Derksen is not guaranteed any senior games at GWS, Oliver is first choice mid for us when fit. Derksen has a young family that he wants to move home to MFC, Oliver would live in essentially the same city and isn’t moving for family reasons. Derksen has one year remaining on a relatively low contract at GWS, while MFC had reportedly offered 3 years at a higher rate offering more job security. Oliver is set for life on his wage at the Dees. They’re pretty different cases. I don’t think anyone has a problem with clubs chasing players or making offers. But leaking through the media, applying pressure to a club through the media, continuing this after a club’s President and list manager had stated it’s not happening and your list manager has put it to bed. That’s pretty disrespectful, I’d be pretty unhappy if we were doing that. As far as I can see Lamb has said we’re interested in Derksen but he’s contracted. No meetings on farms, cleaning out lockers, calls for the removal of CEOs, ignoring President’s statements. It’s pretty wildly different and a false equivalence. I also like that clubs are finally holding players to their contracts. It might finally restore some balance in the trading system.

If they did/do won’t truly be relevant for at least a year though. They’ll want to put their best foot forward even if they do want a trade to make sure clubs maintain interest and our club will be doing everything it can to provide the best environment so they stay. Even then they and we will have the same dilemma in a year if the club wants to hold them to their contracts.

Thank you very much for your excellent and informative response BLWNA. Out of interest what was the impetuous for the Fair work Ombudsman stating they were legally distinct (because tone is near impossible online I’m asking because I’m curious, not challenging you). Was there a particular case that established this? Also, at the risk of derailing this thread further (although let’s face it, it’s way off the cliff now). What are the chances Pert could include external pressure and site sources like these articles as part of a wrongful dismissal suit should the MFC ever sack him? I think the defamation question is still interesting though (to me), if Pert can show a pattern of behaviour undermining his position and casting doubt on his reputation as part of a wider and longer defamation suit. Given Barrett has a long history with him, back to the Collingwood days, would these comments not be part of that pattern even if protected by being a journalistic comment or are they excluded entirely?

I’m not saying he will sue the AFL or AFL media for the article. I’m saying should Pert sue Damien Barrett for defamation OR the AFL in the event he claims income loss or damage to his career/reputation as part of a wider wrongful dismissal case against the MFC and AFL the AFL hosting these comments on a site they have editorial control over is not something that is good to have to defend as part of the wider case. All those journalists have been writing all sorts of things, however I have never seen a columnists directly call for an external clubs CEO to be removed on the AFL (media) website. Can you find that somewhere? Max Gawn is currently cited in a certain ex-pres case, for comments in an on field interview. You think articles on the AFL (media) run website wouldn’t be cited in any Pert case? Victim mentality? What?! Damien Barrett is literally calling for our CEO to be sacked, I’m not claiming to be the victim, I’m engaging in a discussion of why I wouldn’t be comfortable with that if the AFL were my business. Yep, the AFL website is run by AFL media, a subsidiary of the AFL that has key editorial and legal decisions overseen by AFL HQ. It’s a buffer that would work to protect the AFL from a lot, but I’ve never really seen it tested. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a defamation case against AFL media? There’s slagging off and there’s directly calling for someone to be “removed”. It’s not a great look and could be challenged if Pert gets sacked and goes on a legal bender like a certain ex-pres.

Where it gets blurry is when it’s published on the official AFL website. By publishing that content and supporting it there is a tacit imputation that the AFL condones or even shares the opinion. That’s not something a governing body should be doing and should Pert end up suing for unfair dismissal, industrial relations issues or defamation I wouldn’t be wanting to defend it legally.

Sure, but I think this makes it crystal clear, Oliver will NOT be traded. Green may be an interim President with a plan to replace him longer term but he’s not going to want to be made to look like an [censored] by his own club within the space of a week. BTW, Kennett, Maguire, Kosh, Cochrane all used social media and media statements a huge amount in their presidencies. We just had a President in Roffey who stayed largely silent and was crucified for it this year! You can’t win, I’m just glad Brad has made it clear to us members that this is nonsense, which was the intent of the tweet. Brad Green, Clarry’s Mum, Tim Lamb, Andrew Mackie have all poured cold water on this story in the last few days. I think a big part of the reason Barrett is keeping it going is to target Pert. I think he and probably the AFL are worried that if Melbourne come through this trade period with Oliver, Petracca a few picks and Sharp and possibly Derksen supporters may feel ok about their club and wait for the results of the reviews, rather than assemble a lynch mob to remove Pert and possibly Goodwin, which has been their agenda for quite some time.

I was increasingly worried that maybe there was something to this. But now we know Damien Barrett hates him so much I think he has to stay on. If only to make Barrett look like the [censored] he is.

Facts in this article: Clayton is training hard to be ready for pre-season. Melbourne and Geelong have had no meaningful discussions of a trade for Oliver in trade week this far. No offer has been tabled. Two Demons officials said no trade will be entertained. Conjecture: Oliver might have been willing to take a pay cut to get to Geelong.

Super game. Also Georgia Campbell and Gall, wow! Goldy just huge! Kate Hore is all class, probably should’ve played her permanent mid the second Liv went down in hindsight. Since Kate’s spent the majority of the game in there with Hanks and Heater we’ve been flying!

Ok, so let’s entertain this nonsense for a second. Let’s say the club finds a trade for Clayton they’re happy with and do it. That means within 10 days the President, Football Manager and the List Manager will all have lied to the public and Melbourne’s members about trading Clayton (not to mention Geelong’s list manager). Members are upset when good players are traded, particularly when they’re in contract, combine that with outright lies and the relief most members felt when hearing that announcement and the fury will be like nothing we’ve seen before. How do you spin that? How do you run a membership drive? How do you get members and supporters to ever trust you again? How do you get donations for a new home base? How do you keep your other players on the list? I think this is staying in the press through a combination of boredom and wanting to maintain pressure on a clearly very media disliked Gary Pert (check out Barrett’s article on AFL.com outright calling for Pert to go). But I also just can’t see how it happens due to the fall out for the football club, Brad Green starts his presidency with an outright lie at the B&F?!!! We’re being called a circus and disaster and everything else now, imagine if we immediately make three senior club figures liars. Insanity.

In the presser today, Lamb a dead set straight shooter, who wouldn’t even spin whether we were an attractive destination for players at the moment categorically denied that Pert “shopped around” Clayton Oliver. Pert may have spoken to clubs about a range of things, but Oliver was “was never up for trade” and not “shopped around”. So yes, I do not believe the reports Pert called one other club now, not even multiple clubs, Jay Clark was saying one club now, to offer Oliver in trade. Whatever happened, whatever the other club official who leaked this thought, or misrepresented, Lamb was clearly stating today we weren’t offering Oliver for trade.

Tim Lamb: “Shopped him around is not a correct statement.” We categorically did not “shop him around” prove otherwise or stop supporting a media campaign that is getting more ridiculous by the day.

Ahhhh, pretty sure we made the statement: Richardson: We’re not trading Clayton. He’s an important member of our team and we look forward to him playing for us in 2025. Brad Green: Oliver is in our starting midfield in 2025 Tim Lamb: We love Clayton Oliver and are super proud of him. He’s a valuable member of our team and was never up for trade. Goodwin and Richardson are in constant contact with him. Leigh Montagna: Melbourne need to decide whether they’re in or out on Oliver. Sam McClure: Melbourne are still trading Oliver. 7 media+ Tohmey: Melbourne and Geelong are fighting about Oliver. WTAF!! 🤯 The AFL media is an absolute joke!

I need to take a break from posting as I’ve been overdoing it lately but on Petty you’re not quite right there. Petty’s situation changed, that was the main motivation for signing at MFC, if he’d wanted to see another AFC deal he would’ve waited til much closer to the seasons end. It had nothing to do with ‘tanking his value’, while many at our club are frustrated with him as a forward his value as a defender, which AFC wanted, remains. On Trac, yes it’s possible the club could’ve done better. But it was also a once in a lifetime trauma that changed Trac’s entire outlook and made him reassess. It’s possible that if Kate Roffey sent him a dozen red roses every day in the second half of the year he still asks for a trade, trauma is complex. Oliver came up again largely because we put him up last year as a threat and clubs are still sniffing around and it went viral because the media are after us in the wake of Roffey’s sacking and just generally have been for the last 3 years. Geelong were aggressive and here we are. Clearly the club has problems, our President just left and we have two reviews going. But as someone who works for an organisation in a different industry that copped some negative media treatment in recent years I’ve seen first hand how an organisation painted as a “circus” in the media can just have one or two loose cannons or two feuding individuals and once resolved be revealed to have had a majority excellent culture and dedicated professional environment. It’s never as good as it’s reported, it’s never as bad. I think we need to be careful not to tear our club apart at the instigation of outside forces who either don’t care what happens to us, or have grudges and direct hatred they want sated.

No doubt about it. We need to have a big 2025. But there’s actually a good chance we do it with Gawn, Viney, Trac, Oliver, Pickett, May, Lever, Langdon, Fritsch, Rivers, McVee, Petty, JVR, Windsor, Turner and co. Also when we lost the 10 of our last 15 we had, no Brayshaw at all, No Trac for 10, No Lever for 6, No May for 3, No Gawn for 2, No Salem for 4, No Windsor for 4 (he’s amazingly important for a first year player). I’d back us in with a good pre-season and some luck with injuries, to say nothing of pick 5 and improvement from Jefferson, KBrown, AMW, Chandler, Howes and co. But yes, Goodwin will be under huge pressure and should we do badly, he’ll probably be gone, such is the life of a senior coach. Hell, Longmire and Hinkley could be gone if they fail next year, and they just played in a GF and Prelim respectively.

There’s a difference between being open to a trade and being able to engineer one. Players change their minds all the time. Petty wanted a trade last year, re-signed for four this year, Papley, Ben King etc. If you had an honest poll of player managers 5-10 players at every club would entertain a trade, especially if it was to a club contending. Things change, which is why if he gets back to his best and we storm back up the ladder we’ll be very grateful both Clarry and Trac were on long term deals. There’s also the question of whether the reason why Clarry was open to the trade was entirely true. Was he open to a trade because his management was sniffing it out for six months as per Cornes? Or was he hurt to find Pert had shopped him around? Per McClure and Morris Or was the club pushing him out? Per Gleeson and Tohmey. Or was he just doing a bit of the grass is greener? I love my colleagues and my job but every few months I look around, if I had a manager to do that for more I’d probably do it more, even though I doubt I’d ever leave! It’s human nature. It doesn’t mean we won’t keep him, that he won’t be happy at MFC as he has been for the rest of his career. And it surprises me anyone doubts how aggressive Geelong has been in getting him, while my quote post was tongue in cheek, no one at Geelong denies any of those actions.

It’s a joke, it’s not a real quote. I’ll change the quotation marks. But it is a real summary of Geelong’s actions in this saga.

Clayton might have wanted to go. Trac might have wanted to go. It doesn’t mean MFC wants to or will trade them out of a long term contract. Likes are cheap, I liked your post. Bonds with a football boss, list manager, coach and other players who love and support you are real. Every club had quality players assessing their options, some of them may be silly enough to put some of that online, but what determines how the football public perceives it is how the media report it and how the football clubs involved behave. We may have some issues, Pert may have gone rogue, but the vast majority of this narrative has come from GFC and for them to try to play the big, magnanimous, honourable club now is sickeningly transparent.

Andrew Mackie: ‘We contacted Pert and Clayton’s manager regularly about Clayton for over two years, escalating in the past two months. We had Clayton have a phone call with our senior administrators and go out to a farm to be pitched by our players and repeatedly told the media all about it. We floated our future first through the media to push the story Melbourne needed to get his contract off their books and were pushing him out. All despite Richardson and Lamb saying he was not up for trade. And now, after the board has confirmed it and MFC have given us a whack privately at trade week and Clayton has told us no we are respecting their position and putting it to bed’ *not a real quote. A sarcastic but real summary of everything Geelong did in this saga.

I’m now very certain Geelong and Clarry’s manager caused this. They spoke to Pert to determine a value, we didn’t provide one, he was never up for trade, Geelong pushed hard to pitch to him, Clarry met with them but never asked for a trade. Geelong created the story and are trying to look graceful in backing away. Whether Pert made a mistake and was drawn into a conversation about Clarry’s value stupidly given he wasn’t tradable is the only remaining question. This is far more a media than an MFC circus. Only possible one at fault is Pert. The only MFC public statements from Richo, Green and Lamb have been 100% consistent. The rest is unconfirmed media whispers.

If Collingwood were giving away players for cultural reasons they should’ve had a fire sale! There’s quite a few they could’ve traded for the same reasons!

Yeah, those straight sets exits in 2021 and 2018 were brutal! Goodwin is 5-5 in finals with a Premiership. Not great, definitely not bad. He has the same number of Premierships as Scott and Longmire in the last ten years but hasn’t lost the number of prelims, or the GF flogging’s those two have, is that preferable?

That’s not remotely true. Our club barely leaked anything 22-23 and yet we were smashed in the media, particularly Michael Warner in the Herald Sun, every week on the word of two disgruntled ex employees one of whom last worked for the club in Goodwin’s first year on the basis of scurrilous rumours that have never been proven and have been strenuously denied. The same story was then run by the media for a month this year despite it being more than 6 years old and despite the Dr who was providing the story immediately backing away from it as soon as the focus moved away from it being an MFC issue to a broader AFL policy issue. There has been a clear campaign from the AFL media against three individuals at our club and the club more generally since 2022 and it has escalated lately mainly as our on-field performance has dropped, a few players have been unhappy and they were able to get one of the three, in Kate Roffey. Compare our coverage to that of Collingwood, they also had a HUGE drop off in form, players who want to leave and a huge scandal involving their CEO going on who was stood down and who has had serious situations involving misogyny under his watch for three years now. Or Geelong’s story with Stengle this year to the treatment of Clarry the year before. Crickets. The media is after MFC disproportionately to everyone else. Fact.

West Coast had a shorts list of dozens that included Cox, Hansen, Gianciracusa and many more and the only one who was actually interested was well down the list in our midfield coach, who our list had the benefit of having as our midfield coach under Goody this year. That’s with the benefit of months to put feelers out, run a thorough coaching search and recruitment process, install the coach early enough to have them start establishing their assistant coaching team and get everyone in the list management, drafting and recruitment team on the same page with what needs to happen with the list in the free agency, trade and draft period and to be ready to run a full pre-season as head coach. If Goody leaves now we will have time for none of this, we also only have Troy Chaplin of our senior assistant coaches left, leaving us with three key coaching vacancies Head, Mid and Forward in a shallow pool of available quality head coaches and coaches more generally. It would also leave us no time due a well run appointment process and with the senior management either involved in or being reviewed It would render any FD review useless as everything would change before the review even gets going. Not to mention our players love him and if he leaves on the eve of trade week all these players allegedly wanting out will go from mere murmurs to outright mutiny. Sacking or having Goody stand down now would be a suicidal debacle!!!

Brilliant win. Hore is just incredible. Hanks class. Bannan back to her best. Chaplin and Colvin finding their form. Most importantly we stopped the dinky little 45 degree kicks off half back for a turnover, ran the ball by hand or went long down the line and won the contest. Fantastic!