deejammin'

Please elaborate on the disaster? Issues, sure. But we have strong membership, our attendance is regularly in the top 5-7 in the league, we’re financially solvent and in a much better position than the debt demotion days, our brand was ranked the sixth most valuable across AFL and NRL, we’re at the business case stage for FINALLY getting a home base, our AFL team is the most consistently competitive we’ve had since the late 80s/90s and we won a premiership, we pioneered AFLW and have a premiership there too and our VFL program has been consistently strong with a premiership also, only failing when the seniors have injuries. What is the disaster? A board split? An unpopular CEO? Someone leaking against the unpopular CEO? Ex employees suing us? That’s bad, sure, we need to fix it and restore unity but most clubs have similar things going on, surely a disaster was what we were when Jackson took over, we’re nowhere near that!

Agree to disagree. Let’s revisit it in a couple of years. I think he’ll be one of our best players and most important leaders for the whole period of this contract. Let’s see.

His career average disposals was 22.6 vs 21 this year, but his handballs went down from 12.2 to 9.8 while his kicks went UP from 10.4 to 11.2, this was because he was playing a different role in the midfield, rather than being the extractor he was on the end of chains kicking the ball. His marks were basically the same at 2.6 vs 2.8, his tackles went UP from 5.8 to 6.2 (both ELITE) his totally clearances basically the same 4.6 vs 4.9. He kicked one more goal and one less behind and his kicking efficiency was up. That’s not trending down my friend, that’s a slightly different role. If your argument is we should’ve haggled over one more season with our VC, 3x B&F and best mid for the season I hardly see how that proves that it was a confected feel good story, North would’ve given him 4 years in a heartbeat, as would many other teams.

Trending downwards?! What rubbish. This was his best year by a street. He’s improved his kicking, his pressure is immense, he’s great at the contest, quicker than he’s been on the outside and improved his ability to rotate through the forwardline. 3 more years is exactly right.

I really don’t understand this Viney’s deal was a sugar hit report from Barrett. The Roos were after him, Clarkson sounded him out in a press conference, he was our best mid by a street this year, won our B&F and clearly would’ve wanted an extension for his family security and used the Roos and other interest to get himself the best deal. If the club waits another week to announce it so it doesn’t look like it’s coming off the back of the Trac stuff what difference does that make? Are they suggesting Viney’s letter wasn’t genuine? Rubbish! The same reporter claiming Viney’s extension was PR stunt was leading the charge on him going to the Roos until the extension was signed. There’s plenty of negatives floating around about us at the moment, and there’ll be more after the review is done but this is a completely transparent media beat up.

Fascinating how as soon as real trades started happening this story sank like a stone. Nothing has actually changed, his salary was always the same, the clubs position was always the same, the fact Clayton met Geelong was always there, and yet while there was nothing going on otherwise this story was at fever pitch, now there’s real trades happening… crickets. Maybe, just maybe, there never was a story but the media needed something to rave about?! I’m sure they’ll all say it’s magically gone quiet over the weekend though..

Also explains why they lose so many finals. As soon as it’s the more neutral G they fold.

I rate Houston. But I’m a bit relieved we didn’t get Houston. Adding picks 5 and 9 to our list of young talent should see us seriously competitive for a very long time and should JT nail one or both picks in a super talented draft we could have a superstar.

Incredible win! Finals still a remote possibility but we have to do it the hard way. Probably have to win all three, Rich and Hawthorn will be tough then we need to belt Collingwood to have a chance. With our cavalry back and those kind of incredible performances by Hanks, McNamara, Hore, Goldy, Maeve, Zanks and Gillard and with Campbell and Gall improving every week we can do it. Let’s go Dees!

I largely agree with you that it’s possible the club is saying no and Geelong and Clayton’s management are still trying. They are welcome to present offers, I don’t think anyone has a problem with that, I also think MFC’s public statements have gone so far now that there’s no way it can happen, regardless of the offer but let’s see. The Derksen Oliver comparison is pretty erroneous though. Derksen is not guaranteed any senior games at GWS, Oliver is first choice mid for us when fit. Derksen has a young family that he wants to move home to MFC, Oliver would live in essentially the same city and isn’t moving for family reasons. Derksen has one year remaining on a relatively low contract at GWS, while MFC had reportedly offered 3 years at a higher rate offering more job security. Oliver is set for life on his wage at the Dees. They’re pretty different cases. I don’t think anyone has a problem with clubs chasing players or making offers. But leaking through the media, applying pressure to a club through the media, continuing this after a club’s President and list manager had stated it’s not happening and your list manager has put it to bed. That’s pretty disrespectful, I’d be pretty unhappy if we were doing that. As far as I can see Lamb has said we’re interested in Derksen but he’s contracted. No meetings on farms, cleaning out lockers, calls for the removal of CEOs, ignoring President’s statements. It’s pretty wildly different and a false equivalence. I also like that clubs are finally holding players to their contracts. It might finally restore some balance in the trading system.

If they did/do won’t truly be relevant for at least a year though. They’ll want to put their best foot forward even if they do want a trade to make sure clubs maintain interest and our club will be doing everything it can to provide the best environment so they stay. Even then they and we will have the same dilemma in a year if the club wants to hold them to their contracts.

Thank you very much for your excellent and informative response BLWNA. Out of interest what was the impetuous for the Fair work Ombudsman stating they were legally distinct (because tone is near impossible online I’m asking because I’m curious, not challenging you). Was there a particular case that established this? Also, at the risk of derailing this thread further (although let’s face it, it’s way off the cliff now). What are the chances Pert could include external pressure and site sources like these articles as part of a wrongful dismissal suit should the MFC ever sack him? I think the defamation question is still interesting though (to me), if Pert can show a pattern of behaviour undermining his position and casting doubt on his reputation as part of a wider and longer defamation suit. Given Barrett has a long history with him, back to the Collingwood days, would these comments not be part of that pattern even if protected by being a journalistic comment or are they excluded entirely?

I’m not saying he will sue the AFL or AFL media for the article. I’m saying should Pert sue Damien Barrett for defamation OR the AFL in the event he claims income loss or damage to his career/reputation as part of a wider wrongful dismissal case against the MFC and AFL the AFL hosting these comments on a site they have editorial control over is not something that is good to have to defend as part of the wider case. All those journalists have been writing all sorts of things, however I have never seen a columnists directly call for an external clubs CEO to be removed on the AFL (media) website. Can you find that somewhere? Max Gawn is currently cited in a certain ex-pres case, for comments in an on field interview. You think articles on the AFL (media) run website wouldn’t be cited in any Pert case? Victim mentality? What?! Damien Barrett is literally calling for our CEO to be sacked, I’m not claiming to be the victim, I’m engaging in a discussion of why I wouldn’t be comfortable with that if the AFL were my business. Yep, the AFL website is run by AFL media, a subsidiary of the AFL that has key editorial and legal decisions overseen by AFL HQ. It’s a buffer that would work to protect the AFL from a lot, but I’ve never really seen it tested. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a defamation case against AFL media? There’s slagging off and there’s directly calling for someone to be “removed”. It’s not a great look and could be challenged if Pert gets sacked and goes on a legal bender like a certain ex-pres.

Where it gets blurry is when it’s published on the official AFL website. By publishing that content and supporting it there is a tacit imputation that the AFL condones or even shares the opinion. That’s not something a governing body should be doing and should Pert end up suing for unfair dismissal, industrial relations issues or defamation I wouldn’t be wanting to defend it legally.

Sure, but I think this makes it crystal clear, Oliver will NOT be traded. Green may be an interim President with a plan to replace him longer term but he’s not going to want to be made to look like an [censored] by his own club within the space of a week. BTW, Kennett, Maguire, Kosh, Cochrane all used social media and media statements a huge amount in their presidencies. We just had a President in Roffey who stayed largely silent and was crucified for it this year! You can’t win, I’m just glad Brad has made it clear to us members that this is nonsense, which was the intent of the tweet. Brad Green, Clarry’s Mum, Tim Lamb, Andrew Mackie have all poured cold water on this story in the last few days. I think a big part of the reason Barrett is keeping it going is to target Pert. I think he and probably the AFL are worried that if Melbourne come through this trade period with Oliver, Petracca a few picks and Sharp and possibly Derksen supporters may feel ok about their club and wait for the results of the reviews, rather than assemble a lynch mob to remove Pert and possibly Goodwin, which has been their agenda for quite some time.

I was increasingly worried that maybe there was something to this. But now we know Damien Barrett hates him so much I think he has to stay on. If only to make Barrett look like the [censored] he is.

Facts in this article: Clayton is training hard to be ready for pre-season. Melbourne and Geelong have had no meaningful discussions of a trade for Oliver in trade week this far. No offer has been tabled. Two Demons officials said no trade will be entertained. Conjecture: Oliver might have been willing to take a pay cut to get to Geelong.

Super game. Also Georgia Campbell and Gall, wow! Goldy just huge! Kate Hore is all class, probably should’ve played her permanent mid the second Liv went down in hindsight. Since Kate’s spent the majority of the game in there with Hanks and Heater we’ve been flying!

Ok, so let’s entertain this nonsense for a second. Let’s say the club finds a trade for Clayton they’re happy with and do it. That means within 10 days the President, Football Manager and the List Manager will all have lied to the public and Melbourne’s members about trading Clayton (not to mention Geelong’s list manager). Members are upset when good players are traded, particularly when they’re in contract, combine that with outright lies and the relief most members felt when hearing that announcement and the fury will be like nothing we’ve seen before. How do you spin that? How do you run a membership drive? How do you get members and supporters to ever trust you again? How do you get donations for a new home base? How do you keep your other players on the list? I think this is staying in the press through a combination of boredom and wanting to maintain pressure on a clearly very media disliked Gary Pert (check out Barrett’s article on AFL.com outright calling for Pert to go). But I also just can’t see how it happens due to the fall out for the football club, Brad Green starts his presidency with an outright lie at the B&F?!!! We’re being called a circus and disaster and everything else now, imagine if we immediately make three senior club figures liars. Insanity.

In the presser today, Lamb a dead set straight shooter, who wouldn’t even spin whether we were an attractive destination for players at the moment categorically denied that Pert “shopped around” Clayton Oliver. Pert may have spoken to clubs about a range of things, but Oliver was “was never up for trade” and not “shopped around”. So yes, I do not believe the reports Pert called one other club now, not even multiple clubs, Jay Clark was saying one club now, to offer Oliver in trade. Whatever happened, whatever the other club official who leaked this thought, or misrepresented, Lamb was clearly stating today we weren’t offering Oliver for trade.

Tim Lamb: “Shopped him around is not a correct statement.” We categorically did not “shop him around” prove otherwise or stop supporting a media campaign that is getting more ridiculous by the day.

Ahhhh, pretty sure we made the statement: Richardson: We’re not trading Clayton. He’s an important member of our team and we look forward to him playing for us in 2025. Brad Green: Oliver is in our starting midfield in 2025 Tim Lamb: We love Clayton Oliver and are super proud of him. He’s a valuable member of our team and was never up for trade. Goodwin and Richardson are in constant contact with him. Leigh Montagna: Melbourne need to decide whether they’re in or out on Oliver. Sam McClure: Melbourne are still trading Oliver. 7 media+ Tohmey: Melbourne and Geelong are fighting about Oliver. WTAF!! 🤯 The AFL media is an absolute joke!

I need to take a break from posting as I’ve been overdoing it lately but on Petty you’re not quite right there. Petty’s situation changed, that was the main motivation for signing at MFC, if he’d wanted to see another AFC deal he would’ve waited til much closer to the seasons end. It had nothing to do with ‘tanking his value’, while many at our club are frustrated with him as a forward his value as a defender, which AFC wanted, remains. On Trac, yes it’s possible the club could’ve done better. But it was also a once in a lifetime trauma that changed Trac’s entire outlook and made him reassess. It’s possible that if Kate Roffey sent him a dozen red roses every day in the second half of the year he still asks for a trade, trauma is complex. Oliver came up again largely because we put him up last year as a threat and clubs are still sniffing around and it went viral because the media are after us in the wake of Roffey’s sacking and just generally have been for the last 3 years. Geelong were aggressive and here we are. Clearly the club has problems, our President just left and we have two reviews going. But as someone who works for an organisation in a different industry that copped some negative media treatment in recent years I’ve seen first hand how an organisation painted as a “circus” in the media can just have one or two loose cannons or two feuding individuals and once resolved be revealed to have had a majority excellent culture and dedicated professional environment. It’s never as good as it’s reported, it’s never as bad. I think we need to be careful not to tear our club apart at the instigation of outside forces who either don’t care what happens to us, or have grudges and direct hatred they want sated.

No doubt about it. We need to have a big 2025. But there’s actually a good chance we do it with Gawn, Viney, Trac, Oliver, Pickett, May, Lever, Langdon, Fritsch, Rivers, McVee, Petty, JVR, Windsor, Turner and co. Also when we lost the 10 of our last 15 we had, no Brayshaw at all, No Trac for 10, No Lever for 6, No May for 3, No Gawn for 2, No Salem for 4, No Windsor for 4 (he’s amazingly important for a first year player). I’d back us in with a good pre-season and some luck with injuries, to say nothing of pick 5 and improvement from Jefferson, KBrown, AMW, Chandler, Howes and co. But yes, Goodwin will be under huge pressure and should we do badly, he’ll probably be gone, such is the life of a senior coach. Hell, Longmire and Hinkley could be gone if they fail next year, and they just played in a GF and Prelim respectively.

There’s a difference between being open to a trade and being able to engineer one. Players change their minds all the time. Petty wanted a trade last year, re-signed for four this year, Papley, Ben King etc. If you had an honest poll of player managers 5-10 players at every club would entertain a trade, especially if it was to a club contending. Things change, which is why if he gets back to his best and we storm back up the ladder we’ll be very grateful both Clarry and Trac were on long term deals. There’s also the question of whether the reason why Clarry was open to the trade was entirely true. Was he open to a trade because his management was sniffing it out for six months as per Cornes? Or was he hurt to find Pert had shopped him around? Per McClure and Morris Or was the club pushing him out? Per Gleeson and Tohmey. Or was he just doing a bit of the grass is greener? I love my colleagues and my job but every few months I look around, if I had a manager to do that for more I’d probably do it more, even though I doubt I’d ever leave! It’s human nature. It doesn’t mean we won’t keep him, that he won’t be happy at MFC as he has been for the rest of his career. And it surprises me anyone doubts how aggressive Geelong has been in getting him, while my quote post was tongue in cheek, no one at Geelong denies any of those actions.