nutbean

I may be wrong but isnt after the ND and these guys look to be picked up during the PSD ?

is that Donkey Dave Williams waiting for the crumbs ?

Not really - i think i was responding to yet another comment I am, however, waiting for all those like RR who seem to have a policy of not recruiting ready made players who will be as good as they will ever be in their first year and preferring to recruit players that have a minimum of 4 years before they produce what other kids do in their first game, to provide some comment. another comment by - oh yeah - you ! You keep it coming and i will keep responding

The only player i have had a problem with the method of their removal was Jnr - i think the decision was right but Bailey said they could have handled it better by letting him know earlier. But it is always difficult situation and when is the right time to tell them ?

By the same token the club is looking after the clubs interest and i have no problem with the club telling a player that his career is done and dusted. Trouble is - so many players really dont want hear or accept those words

Disagree - and it is not an MFC thing - its the same in every code. When the player and club are in agreement that "time is up" then it ends sweetly. It is when the player doesn't want to accept that his time is up that it ends with some acrimony. Its the way of the world.

Hawks delisting tweeted and Cam is not amongst them - although Paul Johnson is !

half agree - his time was up but Bailey did admit that if he had his time again he would have handled it better by not waiting so long into the season when the decision had already been made in his mind.

Cam rolled the dice and went with a deal that he thought would let him play longer and in finals. Not to be. So be it. I found him a good footballer nothing more. His disposal over the middle to end part of his career did let him down. It is not a myth. We supporters go to games and watch - 72% meh. We watched - we saw. So he will do a Robbo - unhappy with the club - went away for a couple of seasons - now back in the fold. And I for one will thank him for his contribution when the dust settles ( but i will not have rose coloured glasses as to what his contribution was)

I still come from a more conservative camp - I dont write off U23 footballers quickly as they are learning their craft and developing harder bodies. By the same token - I dont make sweeping pronouncements on these young footballers "making it" as glimpses of talent may turning into nothing - Ryan Ferguson springs to mind. Cook may or may not make it. From the glimpses I have seen the three that excite me ( in order) - Jeremy Howe - X factor, Tom McDonald in his two games looked to have time, Troy Davis - looks very solid and composed. Not to say any of these three will make it - just excited at what i have seen so far. ( and using some imagination !)

Cook was the AA CHF so he was well credentialled. But I suppose thats where the problem comes in. The young midfielders at TAC level are more than often further developed than the young Talls so you do have use a little more imagination to ascertain as to how good you think the talls will be. A few mids tear it up at TAC level and then produce decent football from day one at AFL but how many talls do that ? It is so difficult as you are comparing something that can give you a return fairly quickly as opposed to something that will take maybe a year or two more. That is not to say over the journey the tall may not turn out to give a better return and be the better pick. So I disagree with your comment that you can tell that there were better picks available at no 12. The perfect often cited example is that there were heaps of better early draft picks options than Goddard as he took 5 years to come on. The list at the top shows that talls develop more slowly - so if you want instant return then absolutely there were better options at pick 12. You draft for 10 years not 2 years. Lets have this discussion when the boy is 22 - we should see he has to offer at that stage

Dont I know it ! ( I thought I would make my 1000th post worthwhile)

I mentioned that in post 14 - I didnt realise that Sellar was a first round draft pick too. The obviously dont believe in patience required for talls.

Ahhh - if you are comparing the impact a midfielder will have compared to a tall and saying we should have taken Atley instead of a tall - then I have no argument with you ( albeit it is matter of choice) - History shows that the runners come on quicker than the talls. Lots of mids/runners get going from day one. If you are comparing Cook to any other of the other talls taken then I dont accept your argument. Most dont come on early as Darling has. Everyone thought Butcher was the go but he had indifferent first year that ended up getting crueled by injury - his first hslf of this year was so so and he only sparked in the last 4 games. There was plenty pumping for Talia and Black and they havent come on yet either. I dont remember Walker from Adelaide being spoken of at draft time and he has come on early.

I know my stuff ! I listed Sellar of Adelaide and although I didnt have him as "established" I did comment he will be good. Obviously so good that Adelaide have just delisted him. yikes !

Well ..I was hoping for some insight - you do seem to suggest on various posts that we draft skinny talls and have to wait for them develop. I think that this thread pointed to the fact that most clubs draft skinny talls and have to wait until they are around 22 before getting a consistent return. It is a not a MFC thing - it is the normal development path for 196cm 22 kg 18-21 year olds. Darlings,Taylors and Franklins are exceptions to the rule.

An effigy of "he who shall not be named ?"

I think it demonstrates ( without pulling out the shorter bloke stats) that bigger blokes take longer to come on. It is rarer to find a Hurley or Darling that looked the goods from day one as opposed to the smaller blokes like Trengove, Selwood and host of others who hit the ground running from drafting.

Besides Rutten - not too many older ones. Herein lies our problem - we have been unable to develop older talls - Garland and Frawley just hit 23 years old. To me the interesting teams are WCE and Sydney who have established talls in their team who are reasonably young. What I am convinced about is you should pretend that Fitzpatrick and Cook dont even exist and continue their education and development - you can count the footballers of their age and size who have arrived ( nay - even made half a statement) - on one hand. - To write off either of those footballers flies in the face of what the above list highlights

Thought I would at least get a backhander from RobbieF - everyone must be in violent agreement !

I continually here posters bemoaning that we draft tall skinny footballers who take time to develop.(Cook, Fitzpatrick etc) Why dont we draft "Darling" who was ready to go. Too much time on my hands so I did some homework. Below is the list of all clubs of players that are 192cm or over and 22 years old or under. I have subjectively listed who I think is established in their team. I have also italliced which footballers are 22 because many of the footballer I consider established are 22 and only established themselves this year. I think what this list shows is that you have to be patient and it basically takes until 22 until the talls start to show what they are worth. Adelaide – Johnston – 2, Lynch - 6, Shaw – 0, Talia -0, Thompson – 11, Walker – 45, Young – 2. McKernan – 17, Otten - 41 Sellar - 21- Verdict – Taylor Walker & Andy Otten ( Sellar will be good ) Brisbane - Collier – 27, Cornelius – 14, Karnezis – 11, Ryan – 3, Lisle – 5, Retzlaff – 11, - Verdict – nil Collingwood – Brown – 50, Ceglar – 0, Keeffe – 5, Reid – 53, Young – 0 – Verdict - Brown & Reid Western Bulldogs – Cordy – 2, Grant – 37, Hill – 0, Jones – 25, Mulligan – 3, Panos – 0, Roughhead – 17, Verdict – Grant & Jones. Geelong - Gillies – 8, Simpson – 3, Vardy – 9, Walker – 0, Verdict – nil ( Vardy is going to be a beauty) Melbourne – Cook – 0, Davis – 0, Fitzpatrick – 1, Gawn -4, McDonald – 2, Morton – 64, Spencer - 8 , Watts – 40, Verdict – Watts Richmond – Astbury – 22, Browne – 12, Gourdis – 4, Griffiths – 9, Grimes – 8, Post – 22, Rance – 44, Riewoldt – 90, Vickery – 45 Verdict – Riewoldt, Vickery, Rance West Coast - Brown – 43, Lycett – 1, NikNat – 55, Schofield – 58, - Verdict – Brown, NikNat, Scholfield Sydney - Currie – 0, Everitt – 47, Johnson – 20, Reid – 24, -Verdict – Reid & Johnston Carlton - Austin -0 , Casboult – 0, Henderson – 49, Kreuzer – 68., McCarthy -0, Mitchell – 0, Watson – 3, - Verdict Kruezer & Henderson Essendon – Bellchambers – 27, Carlisle – 10, Hurley – 47, Verdict – Hurley Fremantle – Clarke – 21, Houghton – 0, Sibisado -1, Verdict – Clarke Hawthorn – Boumann – 0, Grimley – 0, Gunston – 14, Lowden – 0, Schoenmakers – 35. Verdict – Schoenmakers (?) Port Adelaide– Butcher – 4, Lobbe – 13, Oshea – 0, Redden – o, Trengove – 41. Verdict - Trengove and Lobbe StKilda – Cahill – 0, McEvoy – 53, Stanley – 9, Verdict – McEvoy North Melbourne – Black – 0, Delaney – 0, Kennedy -0, Mabon – 0, Tarrant - 9 Verdict - nil

you dont recruit for next year - you recruit for the next 10 years - by your thinking should we skip the TAC and recruit mature age VFL footballers who can step in and play football from day one ? I think you keep missing the point - the likes of Darling ( who i am not even sure that WCE would have known he was going to step up from day one) are a rarity - it took Dawes 3 years before he started to produce, it took Goddard 4 years before he was worth a pinch. Kennedy ( now at WCE) took 4 years to start to assert himself. It is accepted that if you draft a KPP from the TAC you will probably have to wait 3 years plus to get a return. That's just how it is and it not only the MFC that has to wait for these skinny kids to develop. For what is it worth, I think we may have an early developer by the name of Tom McDonald. Has come on quicker than anticipated.

It has been said before and it will be said again - ohhh the folly of judging 19 year old skinny underdeveloped KPP's. For every Darling and Franklin who have matured early, there are many more examples at clubs of the Cooks and Fitzpatricks who are learning the trade and more importantly growing into their bodies. He has shown some nice glimpses of talent at Casey but I will have a definitive opinion in a couple of years - Old Dee - as frustrating as that may sound - thats the reality.

I absolutely understand his monetary decision and I absolutely bear him ill will. He had a choice to make and as far i am concerned he made it. As said all along - I have zero idea what went downand when and to re-iterate I dont really care - I bear him malice and Tapscott bearing down on him at 100 mph. May he be Rhys Shawed severely.

Overpaid is so subjective. To land a "big fish" you have to pay a premium - thats the way of the world. 4 years time will tell if we under or over paid. I am glad that we went in hard and succeeded.