nutbean

I have a steadfast rule against talking up players now because we have been burned so many times by some many "false prophets". I will go as far as "I like what I see" and Salem certainly falls into that category. I actually liked what I saw with Gysberts but was reserved on Morton because whilst I liked his outside running, his timidness was apparent from the get-go. I like what I see with Tyson as well but I do believe ( and this is not directed at you) that " XXX is going to be a gun" is way overplayed here and frankly has rarely turned out to be the case. I am now firmly in the " Ill let you know 50 games in" camp - players have usually declared their hands by then.

The examples given were from TAC packages. But why are you surprised that people talk up footballers after seeing them for 5 minutes. Morton did have a good first season but his deficiencies could be seen. Gysberts first three games were great and I was surprised he didnt go on with it - but apparently his attitude was very poor. But again - people are always talking up footballers after seeing them for five minutes. Here's another being talked up after playing a quarter of football " In just over a quarter of footy, I have witnessed a coolness and belief in ability, a precise left foot, sound decision making, an intent and hardness around the footy, and most importantly in my eyes - a desire to perform sacrificial acts of desperation for the team."

I understand why the papers give the comparisons - so the uninitiated who don't get to watch TAC you get some indication of how they play, their style. But to expect that by seeing the name "Judd" next to your drafted player means thats what you will get is plainly ludicrous.

No defending Neeld and his abilities at all but the coach is the coach and for a mature aged, professional footballer who considered himself a leader of the club ,well his leadership skills failed him miserably.

Whilst I tend to wait for the real bullets to be fired in the AFL before declaring a player a gun, you do understand that those guys were making judgements purely based on TAC footage taken in their last season of underage footy ? I could make comparison on all those clips to current players - in fact if you see some of the draft analysis they actually have the comparison as to which current listed AFL players they are like - and not only do they compare them but the players the liken them to are all stars - like Pendlebury and Jonno Brown ! Obviously a large amount will not only not be like the stars they liken them to but wont make the grade at all.

I think we see these predraft packages which are 3 minutes of a complete season "best of compilation" - so many draft picks packages we see are like trailers for comedy movies - I see the 30 second trailer on TV and wet myself at how funny it is - then I spend my hard earned and see it at the cinema and come out realising that the only funny parts of the whole freakin movie was the 30 second trailer I saw on TV.

Anecdotally, I have always felt that Jones has a bit of Allan Border in him - the harder the going gets the better he plays. No stats on it - just an observation.

In fairness - the comparison was made on the predraft -2 minutes highlight package. This is the highlight reel of these juniors and they all look pretty good. Have you ever seen a highlight package of a footballer going into the draft that you don't like ? I don't think anyone compared to him Pav or Brown once he played a season at Casey.

Scully gets knocked off the ball way too easily and his footskills are still average at best. Doesn't lack courage or running ability and his disposal by hand is very good. I think his footspeed is ok - he is certainly not slow.

hopefully i am respectfully antsy ! And my health ? - demonland is much easier to cope with than what we see on the field sometimes

And I will go on because of your original point regarding retaining players - we have not been diabolical as you claim to be a fact . You are correct that we have not handled some retirements particularly well but I think this has been more about how we have done it rather than whether the players still had football life in them (Jnr's retirement is widely debated on here - I am in the "he should have retired camp") . Our trading out of players has been ok - none have really come back to bite us. Our retention has been ok. What we have had is our players dragging out contract negotiations until the bitter end. With free agency this will become more and more common. Sorry - but when someone uses the word "fact" I get antsy. I expect a fact to be exactly that - a fact! What you have given us are opinions and your opinions are highly debatable.

please........ Farmer I will give you. Woey and Johnstone we traded !!! Bruce we offered a one year contract and he wanted 2 years - end of his career - ( that didnt exactly bite us in the bum) edit - Both Woey and Johnstone were unhappy about being traded at the time.

Then perhaps demonland is not the best place for you ?

I have supported Watts and have been constantly saying that you need to give tall KP footballers time to develop. I constantly said lets talk about him when he is 23. My problem is he is now 23 and what I am not seeing is any real improvement in the area of making a contest. Young KP are all gangly and no idea where to run and how to fly for the ball and impose themselves. This develops over time. I havent seen the development in imposing himself on a contest - that doesn't necessarily mean crashing packs - it means being hard at the ball even if it is a lose ball outside. My quandary is how long do I have to wait ?

So you think supporting a club means you are therefore excluded from expressing opinions critical to players ? Following your logic, if you shouldn't criticise the players then you shouldn't criticise the management and the board ? And by that logic when you as a member see a totally inept board ( sorry for being critical), at the AGM you must sit on your hands as voting against them is voicing criticism. If you voiced your opinion saying that over the top rants and personal abuse on players is not on then I agree with you. But this forum is set up to voice both praise and criticism. I applaud Saty's loyalty to players but at times feel it is a little misplaced - of late he has moved more to the centre and expressed opinions on Tappy, Strauss and Blease that if they cant get out and play AFL they will be gone by years end ( damning from Saty !). There are posters who criticise here with some intellectual rigour to back up their criticism - they don't go over the top and abuse and that's fine by me.

Happy to listen. List the dismal track record of retaining players. 2.5 players I can remember - Scully and Thompson - and I'll give Sylvia a half - still not convinced that we put an enormous offer on the table to keep him.

Realistic ? - please list the superstars that we have lost over the past 3-4 years. Moloney & Rivers - two free agents - Rivers went to play for a finals team before his retirement and Moloney's we could have matched if we desire ( I have never seen a club say we are not matching an offer so quickly !) Sylvia - I think the club did try and keep him but I don't think too many are unhappy that we failed in our effort. The only player we moved heaven and earth to keep was Scully - posters can make up their own minds if they are unhappy or not about him going ( heavy dose of sarcasm). Our pain is in the way we have played and our results not in the players that have gone. The test will be Frawley who is a high quality player - I think we can moan and groan if we lose him. As to Hogan's contract - he hasn't played a game yet ! - And again - this go home factor - he just can't up and go to Freo or WCE at the end of next year unless they finish bottom of the table or we let it happen. If he wants out then either we deal or he goes uncontracted to a bottom team.

I am hoping for a Daisy Thomas turnaround. Well maybe not quite as ferocious but Daisy's first few seasons he was quite shy of contact and then whooshka !

It is the skill vs effort equation. People may criticise a Bail or Nico but don't rip in like they do for Watts for the simple reason is their deficiency is skill not effort. Footballers have widely varied levels of skills but there is a minimum effort that is expected of all footballers. Watts has wonderful skills but the question mark is on his effort and that always attracts the most unwanted attention

I am off to groovin the moo on Saturday. Getting my hiphop pants on for Illy ! Looking forward to Karnivool as well.

The basis for any good side is the ability to run both ways - but importantly - good defense is the first and most important building block

Interesting you talk about facts - and facts dont back Stuie up. You do know what a fact is ? You point to percentages. Fact one - roos said we would improve our percentage it wouldnt be 54.1% Fact two - it is 69.3% Tell me exactly what fact you draw from fact one and two.

I think the hun rated him 117th

I get that - but shouldn't everyone understand that ? I always think clubs quote recovery times on " if it all goes to plan" - and on many occasions injuries don't go to plan

Noah went on to have a successful coaching career. I know that Terry Wallace takes the credit but I read in this book that Noah invented the flood.