nutbean

doubtful. I believe in the tooth fairy and Santa but I don't believe it when a player says he will make sure his current club is well compensated ( I also don't believe that a player in his last year of a contract puts of all talks to "concentrate on his football")

Can I demand compensation from the AFL for the last 8 years of garbage I have had to watch ?

Neeld's idea was 100% right - we had ( and still have) some promising youngsters with potential ( don't you love the word potential). We were bereft of plus 24 year old talent and leadership. Neeld's problem was not with identification of what was wrong but rather the product he selected to fix the problem and/or his ability to get anything out of the product he selected. Fast forward to Roos - forget Tyson as he is a junior - but Cross and Vince were brought in specifically to give guidance and leadership and I believe that has been successful. Is it the player selection or the coach ? Who knows and doesn't matter. The end result on those two has been good.

nah..preferred your crossing the road and spitting in the face post.

Go back and read Machsy's other musings on this thread.

can you please add to the like button feature 1/ a dislike button 2/ a "taking the pi55" button

Of course it is hypocritical but I don't have a problem with that. I expect our club to jump up and down about issues that affect us at a certain point in time and then do a complete 180 when it doesn't suit us anymore. I believe that Anzac day game should be shared between all clubs so we can all reap the benefits but I believe the Collingwood vs Melbourne on Queens Birthday is a tradition that should be left alone.

Roos has not been quiet on free agency and all manner things relating to our club. We have been lambs in past and it is time we were lions.

correct - I am not sure why all the angst. If StKilda asked for a compensation pick would we as a club be sitting here quietly ? There is a formula in place for free agents but it is not set in stone and there is the facility to "adjust". I believe the Franklin compensation was incorrect but if there were rumblings that the AFL in their wisdom agreed that the formula was wrong in the Franklin case and were going to give Hawthorn the number one pick I would expect our club to jump up and down. When subjective decisions are to be made, and if the decision may have a negative impact on our club I would expect our people to make some noise like Swann is doing. ( in return - we should also be making noise supporting our case)

I don't hate the big clubs. We need to aspire to be one of those clubs that has the ability to treat other clubs with contempt, look down our noses at the also rans and get the AFL and lesser minions to do exactly what we want.

Firstly I don't blame Frawley for wanting success but the emotional side of me says - how about stay and make it your mission to make us more successful instead of bailing out. Secondly, I said we have gone out of our way to fix these issues by having a new Chairman, professional no nonsense CEO and a culture building coach ( with his own hand picked coaching staff). I am not for a minute suggesting that we have fixed the problems - we are one year in to the cultural rebuild. Whether the AFL stepped in ( in the case of PJ) is immaterial - the club, the AFL, the general public all know we have been a cesspool of a club - no secret.

My conundrum with this whole thing is the emotional versus the logical. I try with everything I have to keep footy logical as it is a business - players with limited lifespans going to clubs for more money/opportunity/success and not giving a rats about the club and clubs cutting players or trading them without a seconds thought - logic dictates that you don't get too emotionally invested in a player.I don't subscribe to the "bleeding red and blue" theory. With nearly all players I succeed in this and as such I think I can dispassionately analyse what is going on ( with varied success). Even though we "bought ($$ Ka-ching)" Clark to the club he demonstrated a passion that was absent from nearly all our players. He played every game with a reckless kamikaze style. He wore his heart on his sleeve crying re Stynes. It made it difficult not to get emotionally invested in him and we saw more outpouring of emotion when he was diagnosed with depression. Like Choke suggested - this just hasn't turned out how I would have liked irrespective of what we get for him and just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

The only reason I have not completely dismissed the possibility is, as proven just prior to last season, A PJ led administration does not take a simple no for an answer. Roos said that PJ talked to him on numerous occasions and kept suggesting various scenarios and alternatives. I think PJ's modus operandi is that no is not no until it is 100% definitely, no tomorrow, finished, done and dusted no.

That's unfair. He did do his knee three times.

I would suggest that Waite had one suitor and the deal with the Roos has been finalised. I would further suggest that once the ink is on the paper with either Freo/Hawks/Cats he will announce too.

Not that it makes much difference - but did he take the photo or was it passed onto him and he let is fly on twitter ?

exactly... What exactly will Mitch do if the other club plays hardball ? Stay with us ? Not gonna happen. "I will make sure the club gets fairly compensated" rates up there with a board saying " the coach has our our full and unequivocal support" and a player saying " I don't want to think about my contract until the end of the year - I just want to concentrate on my footy".

I think posters forget this. We are hardly an attractive proposition - especially when other successful clubs can offer big bucks to players as well.

I agree. The problem I see is that success breeds success. It is easier to have self belief when you see where self belief gets you. The Hawthorns and Swans of the league have visible proof of what pure will to win gets you. We as a club have no self belief whatsoever We as a club have no reference points. We have very few players who have the self belief necessary or the view that winning is the only acceptable outcome - Jones has it in abundance - Daniel Cross has it ( The Essendon game was living proof in the last quarter - comprehensively beaten in two contests and bounced back to hit up Salem with "that"" pass - Cross didnt drop his head). I see it in Viney. When Clark played I saw it. So Roos has three tasks. Try and instil in into existing players, recruit players both from the draft and other clubs who have it and weed out players from the group who will never have it. I am on record as saying that Frawley has not been as bad this season as many make out . I will say that as an All Australian footballer in 2010 he has gone backwards whereas Nathan Jones has willed himself to get better and better. I am ambivalent about Frawley leaving as I have not seen what Roos can make of him. However to improve as a club we do need more footballers who crave success and do everything in their power to push us up the ladder - this season proved that Nathan Jones is one of those footballers but Frawley isn't.

Why can't he be chasing both ? Money and success To suggest the cats are in trouble and no more likely to get a flag than us in the next few years is a ludicrous suggestion. ( someone earlier in this thread also suggested that the Hawks were on the slide too) Fairly difficult to win a premiership when you don't make the eight - which Geelong constantly do and we constantly don't. Are Geelong looking as strong as their halcyon days ? Absolutely not but the way to regenerate your list and get back on top is to recruit well and bring players in from other clubs which they are trying to do. Rivers left for success and whilst he hasn't got the ultimate prize he has had two years of finals. Going to Hawthorn, Geelong, Port, Freo or Swans is possibly about money but also about success.

It doesn't mean it is signed sealed delivered but to my thinking - in contract talks is in direct contrast to "I'm putting off contract talks to the end of the contract so I can just concentrate on my footy". (decoded that means " I'm off outta here to the highest bidder")

or the gulf is a million miles wide - the trouble is, prior to the player playing a couple of seasons at senior levels it is anyone's guess if the gap will be minuscule or grand Canyonesque

or conversely, you have had your fair share of success and that's all for you. ( damn your eyes..)

Who cares ? We are discussing Yze Magic...ahhh... .the memories

No matter what name BH came back under - you would know.