Grandson of a gun

Didn't see the Gys dropping coming! Matchups will be key as has been said. Don't think Dunn Will get dropped- based on his good job last week on shaw. Do the crows have a playmaker like that in their backline (given Mcleod is out)? Also experience and given Macdonald has played a fair few games at Brisbane, they may want to bring him back for some more experience on this interstate trip. Reckon the bench will be MacDonald, Watts, McKenzie, Dunn or Bennell, Watts, McKenzie, Dunn. Is rain forecast? That may see Bennell come in.

I will stick my hand up as one of the Petterd is gone people. Glad the article gives all the right indications. Nothing however is a certainty until the paperwork is signed but the indications are good.

Let's assume for the sake of this thread Petterd is going. The AFL have stated in the release that the primary criteria will be age and new contract Offer. Age- 21 Puts him in the upper end of this category. New contract offer- without knowing much about his current contract i think he could be offered something in the vicinity of 400,000 quite easily (as no doubt GC17 will factor in the potential he's shown, his young age and the need to provide sufficient $ to 'lure' him up there). I would say that this will put him in Cat 3 at the worst. If the contract is big enough he may even squeak into Cat 2. I believe he is going and i think if he has been non-committal so far to MFC then it is only due diligence for them to explore all options and relevant compensation in order to plan for the future. If he stays then all is good but better to be prepared for the worst case scenario. It is also my understanding that for this years draft and the one following, any compensatory first round pick cannot be used until the end of Round 1 meaning that the earliest it could be used is about pick 27. However if the club holds onto it until the 2012 draft then it can be used immediately after their first pick in the first round of that draft(for Cat 2 players) or at end of first round (for Cat 3 players). ie if they have pick 12 then the compensation pick is used at pick 13 or at end of first round depending on the category. Unless you believe the 2010 or 2011 drafts will run very deep then it makes no sense to use the pick until at least 2012. Considering Melbourne and where we believe they will be by 2012 (playing finals) that would mean (based on a top 8) that their earliest first round pick in that draft would be pick 9 (for an 8th place finish with no prioirty picks that year). If they use the compensatory pick then they would then get pick 10 or at the worst pick 17 or so also. Given that Melbourne will hopefully be at the pointy end of the ladder for a period of 5 or more years around this time then the value of an additional first round pick in 2012-2013 heightens. It could be used as trade bait to obtain a player to fill any hole we may have in our team or we can use two picks to ensure we keep bringing in top young talent in our window of success. Essentially what i am trying to say is that it would appear that the best thing for the MFC if Petterd goes and we get a first round pick is to hold onto it until our window of success is open and use that pick strategically to strengthen the club or keep fresh top talent coming through- rather than chancing it on a mid 30's selection in 2010 or 2011. That all makes sense doesn't it..........(my head hurts!)

They will not drop Watts IMO and nor should they. Bailey is always harking on about getting games into our youngsters and he definately needs to just keep playing and learning. Leave him there. Gysberts will stay too. 2 out of 3 good games ain't bad..... If Sylvia fit then i would suggest it could be that Miller gets dropped. Let's face it. He isn't part of the long term and we aren't going to make the finals so it is all about player development. If McDonald is fit then i would suggest it could be McKenzie as he fills a similar lock down tackling machine role. If neither are fit then there will be no change as no-one at Casey showed enough to push for selection. Carn the mighty Dees.

Pretty much agree with you rhino. In fact spot on with all 8 points. Mclean was just one of those blokes i loved and i wish him all the best at Carlton, i don't believe in slagging him off as he did give good service to the demons (injuries aside)- but i am rapt with what the footy department were able to do, especially considering that Brock was out of contract and could have gone for nothing via PSD- i think that is what really stings Carlton, not that they paid too much, but that they paid anything at all!!!!! Point 7 of yours is also good. Mckenzie has shown his worth and i believe that Bail will be a good player once he gets over his injuries. There is something about him.....

I think what Inner Demon was saying is that you base your de-listings on what they will be replaced with. In Miller's case i read it that he assumes the footy department will have the mentality that they need to get rid of players, Miller is on the fringe, is Miller the one to move on in order to enable us to use our dfraft picks? That's how i read his post. I think it is flawed because i believe they would actually look at it in reverse anyway. Say we have picks 10, 35, 54 & 83. The FD need to free up space on the list to use at least three of them they would hten say: Petterd gone / Bruce retire- frees up use of first round pick 10 PJ delist- frees up use of second round pick 35 Bell delist- frees up use of third round pick 54 Miller?- what will be more value, delisting him or using pick 83? That's my assumption anyway...but you know what they say about assuming!

Agreed. They want to have the cake and eat it too. Memo CFC: Don't whinge when you use the same tactics because it will only come back to bite you in the a$$.

We must always aim high and strive to be the best- agreed. However, I simply do not see us winning enough games. Yes we should win another 3 or 4 giving us 8 and a half. Will we win any more than that, i doubt it for the simple fact that this young team has shown that it will still be up and down. See the games against Kangas and WC as good examples. Games we thought we should win. Perhaps the players did too and we were off. They will win some that perhaps they weren't expected too or were only 50/50. They will lose a couple that they won't in future years. The nature of the beast. As long as we see continued development. Continued game time into our young nucleus and that risk taking corridor game style coupled with 3 to 4 more wins, then i think we will all call the season a successful step in the right direction. Be realistic with your predictions and goals, cheer hard and watch this young team develop.

You can't judge the trade on half a season. It may take two or three. I think that at the very least, Gys has the potential to offer as much as Mclean if not go past him. Don't get me wrong, i loved Brock when he was at MFC, he was tough, hard and uncompromising. His pace and disposals were what let him down. I told this to Carlton supporters and at the moment they are bleeding. I still think if/when Mclean gets fit he will be ok for Carlton. Kudos to Melbourne's list management team though. We missed out on Kruezer in that famed Kruezer cup match but since then they have done everything right. Draft picks have been pretty good and trades likewise. The two big one's were TJ for Pick 14- Grimes. LJ in PSD. Also at this stage, Brock for Pick 11- Gysberts. The original comments at the start of this thread indicate it was some form of gloating over Kruezer's ACL. If so, you are a fool. I would not wish a knee on anyone in the AFL, MFC or otherwise. Were you cheering when the Ox went down, or the young kid Gawn had his done? I would rather come up against a full strength Carlton and test ourselves than to cheer when they suffer injuries to young guns. Hopefully he has a speedy recovery.

Delist: Bell- Had enough chances. Others are ahead of him. PJ- He will go to make way for Spencer as the back up with Gawn the project. Netwon- Hack. Meeson- Useless. Healy- Had time, hasn't developed. Borderline- Maric. I think his future will actually hinge two things: 1) If Petterd goes he may retain a place on the list. 2) If Bruce retires he may also retain his place. (Don't think McDonald will retire). If neither of these happen then he will be gone. This should see McKenzie elevated and whether Spencer is retained as a rookie or on the main list will have to wait and see. (If he is still eligible for the rookie list???) Dunn will remain. At the very least he will remain to cover gaps if there are injuries. Bail. Reckon this kid can play and was stiff to get the fractured cheek. Melbourne will give him a chance. Strauss. He was bad on the weekend but also reckon Melbourne will persist. Miller- the great unknown. Do they keep him as backup given the young, under-developed forwards we have- i think so. as a back up.

Hardwick, Malthouse, Thompson....... it wouldn't matter Mono. Get off the jungle juice and wake up. Melbourne are a developing team. If they win 8 or so for the year everyone will be saying they have shown solid improvement. Richmond win three games and you are calling for Bailey's head. I assume you are drunk.

Fool. So what you are saying is that Richmond have improved more than Melbourne this year. Are you serious? 4.5 wins in 11 rounds with two 1 point losses to me is a fair amount of steady improvement. Yes we can be up and down but that's what happens with young teams. 4 weeks ago you wouldn't be saying that about Richmond as they got pasted again and again. Your comments show a complete lack of understanding on the path Melbourne are on. I reckon it is great Richmond are winning. Dare i say it may give you a glimpse of another team who may be strong in a few years.

If todays conditions didn't suit him then it never will. with the ball on the ground all the time a quick small forward should be lapping it up. He should have been mopping up possies and pumping it in forward / kicking goals at will today. Instead all he displayed was a lack of a work ethic, his inability to keep his feet in the contest, his inability to cleanly pick up the footy under pressure and that he offers nothing else to the team. Take a look at one fo the blokes he was competing with for a spot in the demons team- Bennell. Still didn't have a great day but worked, showed clean hands, kept running, tackling and putting pressure on, kept his feet and hit targets. Maric is gone. MFC need to move on from him. Horrible game to watch. Having played at Willy and watched a few games there, it is one place where the home ground advantage is quite pronounced (not to the tune of 118 points). The windy conditions make it near impossible to execute good skills at times which throws out team balance because players run to a position where the ball would usually be kicked and instead it gets blown around and they get caught out (as evidenced a few times early on with Aussie and Jurrah). Bell was good today but i believe he has been given chances at the top level and shown that he just isn't quite up to it. Plus the players in the Demons backline at the moment are much better. Spencer did ok in the body contests in the rucks but other than that did not show much. Big blokes take time (see Jamar) however he is a poor kick and poor contested mark. Should just stay on the rookie list at this stage (given our lack of rucking stocks). Strauss was poor today as mentioned above re the one on one's. Not sure yet re him although he is the type of running player that can sometimes not look flash at VFL level because the skills of the players around him aren't as good and therefore they don't deliver the ball to him well enough or go to the right positions. This was the case with Jurrah. Delivery into the forward line was atrocious. I would have hated to be playing there. Don't think MFC really care though, as Bailey indicated in interview, they just want game time into him and then he will return. Likewise Bennell and Aussie. The skills and delivery of the players around them left much to be desired. Aussie was pretty ferocious with his pressure and tackling which was pleasing at least. Agree he doesn't look fit enough and that may be his problem. Cheney didn't do his chances any good today. Fitzpatrick showed a little bit. He just needs to add some muscle to his frame (looked pretty skinny in the arms). Hopefully he stays in the forward line for the rest of the year at Casey and learns to play using his body.

There's no secret GC17 want older players to balance out the youth- if they're getting smashed in VFL imagine what the AFL teams will do to them if they don't get some mature bodies in there. Agree re Petterd but think the pick will come from GC17's allocation of draft picks this year. None of that is saying GC17 actually want him but hey we can live in hope can't we?????? You are right re the Key forwards mentioned and i don't believe MFC would be stupid enough to trade away early picks for any of them.

Agree. But what more do you want of him at this stage? Concrete signs of performance: He recognised the poor state of the list and cleaned it up; He had the intestinal fortitude to see the big picture and "manage" the team to ensure the best draft picks in his first two years; He built a backline that is in the top 4 or 5 in the comp; He has / is developing a midfield that will be scarily good; He is now developing the forward line (albeit hampered by injuries to Jurrah, Petterd, Sylvia and Bate at times). The game plan is positive and exciting, defence based but with quick direct ball movement through the guts- what we all want. I'm sure we will continue along this path after the break. Given this, surely he has done enough at this stage to win your confidence that he is on the right path.

I agree. He will add bulk and he is one of those players who has poise and time no matter the situation. He will be the swingman, capable of playing anywhere. Nope. Please no. no. Sorry DP but the last thing we need is another small bloke. Think long term. What do we have a heap of (smalls and mediums), what do we desperately need TALLS. (Especially given Viney will be a father son and he is apparently a very talented on baller). Yes we have Gawn and Fitzpatrick in the wings but that is it. Still not convinced re Spencer. Keep the early pick. Trade Miller (& get compo for Petterd if he wants to go) to GC17 for another first round pick and use them both on big blokes. Fill the list out with some size and strength. That is what we desperately need.

Here's some food for thought. Offer up Miller to GC17 for a pick. If Petterd goes too then perhaps a highish first rounder is on the cards for Miller/Petterd together. Regardless of anything else, use our first pick and any subsequent acquired pick on tall/strong KPP. Bottom line the first pick will likely go for a tall forward anyway and if the above trade takes place we don't lose anything by taking a risk with another tall. We have a plethora of mediums and smalls, midfielders and backs. Not that i have any idea who is in the upcoming draft but there have been mentions that there are some good KPP prospects. Fingers crossed.

Given many of us believe that our premiership window will open about 2013 pick what you think our team will look like come round 1 and no injuries. Obviously each will have their own opinions but i believe the core will look something like this: B Bail Warnock Morton HB Grimes Frawley Moloney C Blease Scully Davey HF Tapscott Watts Sylvia F Jurrah Bate Bennell Fol Jamar Trengove Gysberts Int Fitzpatrick Strauss Wonaeamirri Jones Pushing for selection: Gawn, Jetta, Garland, Macdonald, McKenzie, Retired: Green, McDonald, Bruce Unknowns include draft pick this year and likely father son in Viney in 2011 or 2012. .......just a little firm thinking about that sort of team.

Pretty much spot on. good post and well thought out- it would pay for many posters on this forum to have a read to see what a wonderful path we are on and to have faith. I do however disagree in regards to the pokies. As has been said, it isn't illegal. No one is forced to play them. If you take that stance then you should not accept revenue from alcohol sales as just as many drunks ruin lives (read violence in CBD) and alcoholics ruin families (read domestic violence). As long as people are always educated and provided with an option then i don't see a problem. What the work of Jimmy and co shows up most is the lack of work by previous administrations. Shame on them and thank god for Jimmy. The MFC is going to return to the powerhouse it once was........

That's not a bad system. The problem is with the inability to then have two games between say Coll / Ess, Coll / Tiges etc- possibly solved by fixturing 2 years at a time......... however those games are also still big TV money games and they will lose out there only having one a season. The biggest question is then how the conference's are divided. How is it worked out. One may argue with the above example that although you have split up the current top 4 across the conferences, in all liklihood (and being an optimist here) in say 3-4 years time the top 4 teams in the comp given the recent drafts etc will be Melb, Rich, Freo, North and poss GC17 and GWS. That would then create lop sided conferences and make the finals positions flawed. Therefore as a counter do you then rank the top 5 in each conference and factor in who they have beaten and their finishing position to then work out a formula for ranking the top 10 teams and then split the finals up that way? Again not desirable given example above. Just playing devils advocate here....

Further to the last, this alternative looks good on first glance: With 18 teams in the league, each team plays each other once in the first 17 rounds. At the conclusion of round 17, the bottom six sides are no longer in premiership contention. The top 12 are divided into two evenly matched groups of 6 (this could be 1,4,6,7,9,12 in group A, and 2,3,5,8,10,11 in group B), and in the remaining five rounds (I have called these the 'super rounds'), each team plays the other five teams within their respective group, with the final 8 playing off under the current system. I have suggested a couple of extra measures that may create additional interest in the super rounds. Firstly, winning a game in the 'super rounds' is worth 6 points rather than 4 (points are carried over from the first 17 rounds). Secondly, the top 8 is determined by the top 4 within groups A and B, with the top 4 determined by the top 2 within each group. Thus, at the conclusion of the super rounds, the qualifying finals will be A1 v B2, B1 v A2, and elimination finals A3 v B4, B3 v A4. Of course, supporters of the bottom six sides would mostly prefer to see their teams playing the full 22 rounds. An idea here is that after round 17, the bottom six form group C and play each other over the last five rounds (points are not carried over); at the conclusion of the five rounds, the top 2 of the bottom six play off (alongside week 1 of the finals), with the winner earning a priority draft pick (rather than tanking to receive one). After the first draft pick, the ladder at round 17 determines the order of the national draft (i.e. the bottom team at round 17 receives pick 2, second bottom pick 3 and so on). This at least ensures that each of the bottom sides has something to play for (other than pride). There are some questions that arise under this system, which I have tried to consider and come up with a solution. For example, which team plays a home game in the super rounds? One possible solution is that the home team in a super round game was the away team when the teams met during rounds 1-17; e.g. if St Kilda played Fremantle in Melbourne in round 10, then if they play each other in the super rounds, they would then play at Subiaco. (Care of Chiz on Big Footy). However, If any of the big 4 teams (Carl/Coll/Ess/Rich) or WA or SA teams are in the bottom 6 my previous argument about being unable to fixture a second derby style match remains (and the financial implications for clubs). After 17 rounds, the bottom few teams will be there for a reason- they are crap. More than likely the theory above will see teams in positions 13 and 14 ending up with a priority draft pick before the crap teams below them get a selection- the cries of inequitable will be screamed from the heavens when Hawthorn or someone like that gets the first pick ahead of Richmond..... Finally, using Melbourne as an example. They play West Coast, Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane away during the season. They finish say 7th. The conference's are divided up however only Brisbane is in their conference for the final 5 rounds, so they only get a return game in Melbourne against them. Meanwhile, also in their conference is Freo, Port and GC who also finished above Melbourne. These teams by virtue of being higher on the ladder get home ground advantage and therefore Melbourne winds up playing 7 interstate games during the year. This screams of inequity. It is the same on the flip side for interstate teams who have to travel to Melbourne repeatedly. It all harks back to my previous post / argument that for all the discussion and conjecture (and press) that will occur.......there will be bugger all changes except for a couple of extra rounds and maybe one or two more finals spots up for grabs.

Don't be surprised to see a 24 round season with a top 8 or 9 with the fixturing staying much the same way it is now. The AFL will not settle for anything else unless it is proven to be better (fairness included) that won't affect the commercial dollar. Remember WA and SA derbys, 2 matches between Pies / Bomb, Carl / Pies, Bomb / Carl and other big games are massive windfalls for not only the AFL but the clubs involved too. Clubs will not want to run the risk of losing out financially. The conference system means that some of these twice a season games will be lost. Splitting the comp into 3 divisions after 17 rounds also rules out some of these double up matches. (Even when blues where crap they still had massive crowds against traditional rivals). It is the almighty Dollar that drives this competition. Big games, TV rights, crowd attendance etc. The AFL are simply stroking the ego of the public to make them feel as if they have a say- when have the AFL ever listened to the public on how to run or govern the game. They don't and won't.

Pretty Accurate. Give a taste to Tapscott, Fitzpatrick and Blease (if he can get fit in say 8 weeks of solid Scorps work). See Strauss return at some point. See Bail overcome his injuries (i think he has a fair amount of talent) Not convinced re Maric given blokes like Bennell and Jetta in team but probably deserves a shot And likewise re Cheney (the little red grunt man). Obviously 3 or 4 more wins but the most important thing is development for the years to come.

Agree with the original thoughts re Bailey. People who are critical of his first two years need to remember that we had an old list, and some very average players. He had to cull it all and start again. And whether you believe it or not, he and the match committee crafted this list while "managing" win loss ratios to ensure the best long term future for MFC, i.e securing priority picks. I applaud his fortitude in that regard. Have a look at the backline he built. Have a look at the midfield he is building. He has taken the right steps so far. Quite rightly all that remains now is development of the forward line (hopefully with much fewer injuries). People are so quick to jump down his throat but i believe so far that he is better than blokes like Ratten (ask any CFC supporter), Voss (without Brown and Black his team would be a shambles) and Knights (he is a man who has serious gameplan issues) and he is equal with blokes like Hardwick and Clarkson.

Spot on. highly doubt we will be in finals contention (but all for it if we are good enough) however those last 4 weeks may see a few debutants. Don't think Blease will given he has barely played a half this season and still has some apparant leg soreness. However, if Fitzpatrick can get some game time into him through Casey 2's and 1's then i wouldn't be surprised if he may be in the same boat as Tapscott. Even though he is not a debutant, we may see Maric just to give him a taste and try to get him to take his game to the next level again next year. Likewise Cheney and Strauss. Bail will also if he can get fit again.