DEE fence

Have you contacted the herald sun, I know they are a piece of kaka rag, but having been there I was super impressed by their library, I remember getting a print of my brother shaking Steve Waugh's hand in the west index during one of his centuries. They are very happy to share prints.

^ +1

You mean this?:> http://demonland.com..._25#entry672321

take it for granted that I hadn't read this topic, my apologies, you stay up past your bed time as well do you?

I am a huge fan of the trades, think there is a plan and can't wait to see it put into action.

But all I expect is some tougher more competitive (dare i say it bruising) football.

Last year was a log jam between 7 and 12, I don't expect our percentage to be brilliant (we are still new and young there will be some blowouts - lets not lose the plot as long as there are no 186's) so I can see us on the outside of the eight despite a much better improvement in style and effort etc.

What I really want to see change from the 2000's is losing the 'F%&^&*%*( games we should win... the only reason I don't try and shout down people who criticise the club as useless in the last 20 years is because even in our strong seasons we had a penchant for dropping the games we could bank, used to drive me spare, more than anything I want that to go. I think we've played some attractive footy during and since the Northey years, now I want to see ruthless.

But I do think we are on the right track and I'm not going to drop my bundle if we don't make the eight as long as I see strong improvement-2014 must be finals though.

If Neeld has some sort of Midas touch with who we've picked up and we do make the eight I'll be surprised, top four and I'm on the plane home baby.

edit: every trip home to oz in the last seven years I've only seen miserable losses, you have no idea how much that bites after travelling for a few days, makes a trip to Perth small beer.

I installed some strong protection for my computer and logged onto the filth site to see what they had to say, and was amazed how many were going 'probably' re Swan... does anyone else check out the opposition forums? BTW they must have strong dirt on Swan put that picture of powder in the shape of a field over his image is pulling no punches at all. still think she is a troll though. I wonder how Flanagan gets on with her? I miss his articles.

its very late here btw, sorry

lets role it out a bit further Pedders shocks and just go with Shock, as in shock and awe (hopefully) the ck is a hard guttural sound that will lend its self nicely to expletives as well

Lyon, Stynes, Neitz... were champions of our club, but not champions of the game. We keep waiting.

Stynes not a champion of the game...putting aside what he did after the game i think it is fair to say a Brownlow medalist is a champion of the game.

Hasn't even been a ball bounced this year, prob bit early to be writing him off. How about a bit of positivity... Yeh I've been to training and seen him struggling, but here's hoping a more successfull year for the dees, and therefore more opportunities up forward will allow what's physically left of Davey to reinvent himself.

I so hope your right, would love nothing more than to be wrong, and I do think having an improved midfield with the recent recruiting could help take the pressure off, I noticed that when he was playing recently he was always well marked. He is a great and humble guy, I have nothing but love for him and will hope for a father son somewhere down the line. That said soft tissue injuries are the death of speed and that was his ace, it's gone, I know he muscled up but that didn't help Hird and Buckley was stuffed with his hamstrings no matter how strong he got - I just think Davey is cooked I hope it isn't true. BTW I think he deserves his money, people forget how cheap he was at the start and I really enjoyed him playing, I said it before and will say it again, one of the bravest players to take the ground for the MFC.

FNQ, many thanks for the reports they are the best thing about the forum, something actually written that was observed by the author rather than a rumour or an opinion.

If I had my way you would become the MCG Demon and write all the training reports they make me feel much better about the club to know that the team is positive. Things like hearing why programs are modified are gold because I admit in the past to think, 'bugger, another player injured'.

That goes for everyone else that has written a training report, thank-you much appreciated.

edit for the bloody automatic spell checker, gets me every time

We looked after him and cared for him because it was the right thing to do.

Great post, key point. I do have sympathy for those that feel aggrieved, it's a bit like your GF dumping you, it hurts, but you still treat her with respect, even though the green eyed monster is lurking, about her new BF.

I'll make a prediction.

Flash will put in some hard yards and might even squirm his way onto the bench a few times.

He will show cameos of brilliance lest we forget he was THE ONE who effectively started the defensive forward thing in the reincarnation of the game (as we now know it).

Then it'll be about ... ooooh ... round 14-15. Flash will fail to come up after a niggling reignition of his knee. After talks with the club and a visit to the personnel department to sign off on a change in role at the club he will announce his retirement from AFL playing effective immediately.

Some well deserving rookie gets promoted for the ros and life goes on.

This is said not to denigrate the bloke as hes been a great player in the main, cruelled in the end by injuries. Just calling it as i see it (in the tea leaves lol).

Often not on the same page as BB but it seems like Davey is done, so sad about it wanted him to go out doing miracles but it seems not be. Will always remember him as super brave. I hope others do too, the way he tackled CHFs was a revelation and he invented fwd pressure. He was the must stop guy for a while, that's a fair thing to have achieved.

I reckon Tippet will have a bad man flu the next time his (future?) team draws a game in adelaide

This resonates deeply with me, no need for music thank you, it is the thing i hated when i went to the basketball and even ice hockey does it. I also love my music, 20 second grabs from songs does not help them either.

I reckon it would be good to push the grass roots thing more we need to differentiate more than ever, i mean whats next cheers leaders??? (am a bit torn on that though)

I am very glad the club has retained counsel, i just hope they use it wisely and that all players, staff and administration understand that the hymns that will be sung are those chosen by Mr. Finkelstein. If the club needs to go to the well on this then they should, I'm ready.

Not sure which thread to put this in, seems like a few more could be merged

As a former Policeman (not a gun investigator but qualified enough to say calm the procreation down), I have been quite amazed at some of the things written in the news and on the forum, so wanted to add my two cents.

1 first of all it is a civil, not criminal matter so the rules for a finding of fact are based on 'balance of probabilities' not 'beyond a reasonable doubt') findings are based on evidence, heresay unless certain exemptions are made, cannot be allowed into evidence. 99% of everything I have read has not been direct evidence but would be dismissed after consideration by a judge. Mr. Haddad is mentioned as a UN investigator this means nothing but it does sound good. If he had been with the armed robbers squad or the hommies then I would take him a little more seriously, but he was not appointed via any balanced recruitment process, nothing personal but he is just a good soldier not Dirty Harry. Any reasonable silk will take large chunks out of a statement by a peanut like Brock, you can make statements too good and they look cooked when you read them.

2 a witness can only provide evidence of what he or she saw, so former sponsors ... Meh means nothing except 2" of news print.

3 there are literally dozens of witnesses, does anyone have any idea how long this would take to hear and depose, think Milperra Bikie Massacre, that took two years this would be longer, no one is going to be up for that not the AFL not the club (actually I'm wrong the lawyers would love it). My point being that if the AFL hits us with punitive sanctions we should make very clear to our board that we want them to challenge them in court, I really deeply believe a compromise will be worked out that doesn't gut the club.

4 there was no direct profit or financial misconduct, while draft picks are gold, their tangible value is very hard to debate, they cannot be redeemed for cash and which individual profited? there is no criminal conspiracy to defraud (a criminal charge) unless you had the board as a group put there hand up and confess, which considering their personal financial positions, they would not jeopardize, and even then proving the 'for benefit' bit would probably set a legal precedent. My point is in other areas that the AFL has come down hard on there has been a clear financial trail, whether gambling or salary cap rorts. In this case it's 60 different muppets all with a slightly different tale to tell, can anyone really prove what Bailey did as a result of a conversation with Connolly or Schwab?

5 football clubs have always sat slightly outside the law, this has caused me much consternation because I am a great believer in the rule of law, which directly conflicts with my love of the club. I think the AFL gets this and that is why they have generally been keen to stay away from the courts. AFL is part of Australian culture that is why it has been cut some slack in the past and will continue to do so-Societies being protective of their culture (I could tell you about some really obnoxious cultures I see here in Africa). For all the [censored] we hang on the AFL it's been pretty good at moving forward, thuggery, violence towards women, alcohol, and race are all issues that they have been moving forward on over a period of time to make sure the good aspects of our football culture remain, I don't think they will tear all that down which is what would happen if they really tried to kill us over tanking. The good aspect of football culture that stands out for me is getting a group of young men to play together for a common purpose and with each other, it breeds good people and allows an outlet for all the crap that goes with being young and male, short of sending them to the army or on a cattle drive. But it is a fine thing to balance collective responsibility (the club ) versus individual actions ( the player ), and sometimes this loyalty means that societies rules get bent in a football club, for the greater good I'm happy with that because they (the afl) have been getting rid of the excesses mentioned previously.

6 The AFL got the priority pick thing wrong, the lesser evil for them will be to amend the rules and incentivize winning games over draft picks via a lottery.

This is typed on a dinky widget so please excuse typos/ grammar/spelling mistakes.

As a former Policeman (not a gun investigator but qualified enough to say calm the procreation down), I have been quite amazed at some of the things written in the news and on the forum, so wanted to add my two cents.

1 first of all it is a civil, not criminal matter so the rules for a finding of fact are based on 'balance of probabilities' not 'beyond a reasonable doubt') findings are based on evidence, heresay unless certain exemptions are made, cannot be allowed into evidence. 99% of everything I have read has not been direct evidence but would be dismissed after consideration by a judge. Mr. Haddad is mentioned as a UN investigator this means nothing but it does sound good. If he had been with the armed robbers squad or the hommies then I would take him a little more seriously, but he was not appointed via any balanced recruitment process, nothing personal but he is just a good soldier not Dirty Harry. Any reasonable silk will take large chunks out of a statement by a peanut like Brock, you can make statements too good and they look cooked when you read them.

2 a witness can only provide evidence of what he or she saw, so former sponsors ... Meh means nothing except 2" of news print.

3 there are literally dozens of witnesses, does anyone have any idea how long this would take to hear and depose, think Milperra Bikie Massacre, that took two years this would be longer, no one is going to be up for that not the AFL not the club (actually I'm wrong the lawyers would love it). My point being that if the AFL hits us with punitive sanctions we should make very clear to our board that we want them to challenge them in court, I really deeply believe a compromise will be worked out that doesn't gut the club.

4 there was no direct profit or financial misconduct, while draft picks are gold, their tangible value is very hard to debate, they cannot be redeemed for cash and which individual profited? there is no criminal conspiracy to defraud (a criminal charge) unless you had the board as a group put there hand up and confess, which considering their personal financial positions, they would not jeopardize, and even then proving the 'for benefit' bit would probably set a legal precedent. My point is in other areas that the AFL has come down hard on there has been a clear financial trail, whether gambling or salary cap rorts. In this case it's 60 different muppets all with a slightly different tale to tell, can anyone really prove what Bailey did as a result of a conversation with Connolly or Schwab?

5 football clubs have always sat slightly outside the law, this has caused me much consternation because I am a great believer in the rule of law, which directly conflicts with my love of the club. I think the AFL gets this and that is why they have generally been keen to stay away from the courts. AFL is part of Australian culture that is why it has been cut some slack in the past and will continue to do so-Societies being protective of their culture (I could tell you about some really obnoxious cultures I see here in Africa). For all the [censored] we hang on the AFL it's been pretty good at moving forward, thuggery, violence towards women, alcohol, and race are all issues that they have been moving forward on over a period of time to make sure the good aspects of our football culture remain, I don't think they will tear all that down which is what would happen if they really tried to kill us over tanking. The good aspect of football culture that stands out for me is getting a group of young men to play together for a common purpose and with each other, it breeds good people and allows an outlet for all the crap that goes with being young and male, short of sending them to the army or on a cattle drive. But it is a fine thing to balance collective responsibility (the club ) versus individual actions ( the player ), and sometimes this loyalty means that societies rules get bent in a football club, for the greater good I'm happy with that because they (the afl) have been getting rid of the excesses mentioned previously.

6 The AFL got the priority pick thing wrong, the lesser evil for them will be to amend the rules and incentivize winning games over draft picks via a lottery.

This is typed on a dinky widget so please excuse typos/ grammar/spelling mistakes.

Also, we might have to throw a few administrators on the fire, that is our punishment. brer rabit comes to mind.

am sure its been said elsewhere but the last six teams need a lottery for picks and the AFL admits tanking is impossible to police as coaches must always have the right to experiment with their teams which means they might get it wrong.

betting on anything with a cortex is pretty stupid, yet the AFL is wedded to income from gambling like much of the state.

do you think any punters will sue btw?

This is what I know about Gysberts and why he was traded-

-he is not competitive at all in one on one drills

-he could not bench press 50kgs and was very ordinary with the other weights

-in today's football the club believed he is not strong enough to play as an inside mid and did not appear to want to improve in the strength area

-his endurance is rubbish and again he didn't appear to want to improve. Anyone that went to preseason would have observed this first hand

-he doesnt have a defensive side to his game which goes against the way neeld wants to play. Very similar to moloney.

-he was not a neeld favourite right from the start because of his work ethic and unlike blease was not prepared to turn it around

Neeld has made his decisions on soft footballers at our club and we are seeing the product of this.

I'll admit I'm a bad loser but even more I hate watching us get pumped so often. I'm happy to move on guys that aren't competitive. Gys is one of those guys. Viney and wines would crush him easily now in that area and hogan has already stated he hates losing. These are the guys I want at our club.

The high draft picks are just a by-product of us moving them on.

Can't bench press 50 kg? Surely an exaggeration ??? That is a nothing weight I'm pretty sure as rubbish as our list is they could all do more than that...

I reckon he deserves a bonus he's one of the few things about the season that would make kids fans of the club.

I want to see a game plan and a contest, not super fussed about the number of wins, but I do want to see a spirit to the way the team plays, that suggests they are putting everything in, and not thinking about their social engagements.

I also don't want to see us pumped by more than 10 goals by the top sides.

Personally the things that matter to me is seeing people trying to smother the ball, not sitting back on their heels but making the tackle, and laying a shepherd for a teammate rather than letting them get nailed, these little things will be the signs of a team spirit that would make me think we are moving forward. The wins will look after themselves because its the tough little things that are the (pinching from Any Given Sunday) inches we need between massive failure and sweet success. Evidence that they are playing for each other will be the sign that we are on the right path, not a win because we are someone else's speed bump.

There is no fairy dust, 2013 is going to be some bloody hard work, its not like the other sides are sitting around singing kumbaya.

edit for grammar and clarity

it is premature to get rid of one of the few big bodies we have in Jamar, even after Neitz lost a step no opposition ever took the gorilla lightly, why on earth would we get rid of one of our heavy cannons

I forgot about Goddard, and Richo was RFC's Schwarz but with a happier ending.

Some good comments here, Healy hurt, Stinga was indeed a tragic loss post injury, cannot believe Jurrah is gone I keep hoping I will wake up. Junior and Woey leaving damaged the club.

Having just had an arthroscopic procedure, that thankfully worked, I was wondering about Max Gawn and of course to this day I still dream about what might have been with Schwarz. Big footy had a thread about Gawn but that was more about whether to delist him (which would be moronic IMO, hasn't finished his chance yet).

So anyway my question is (and I did search so if its on DL and I missed it I'm sorry) - Who has made the best comeback from a ACL\PCL reconstruction?

Paul Salmon to me is the stand-out for recovery and post construction FB career, Mr. Goodes also seems not to be a slouch in recovery, Any other thoughts? Prevailing stats say that 90% of ops are successful and the recurrence rate hovers around 10% so all in all doesn't seem to be a huge risk hanging onto Gawn, and that Schwarz was bloody unlucky.