Yes, Geelong and St. Kilda took six or seven years to reach the potential provided by high draft picks. (Let's face it, Hawthorn was incredibly lucky to win the premiership in 2008). I would be over the moon if we made it to 10th. Richmond and Fremantle (and possibly Port) are the only teams obviously below us -- and the Dockers are a different side out at Subiaco. So 12th-14th is probably more likely. I just don't want to see any more floggings and real stability in the team, including the coach. The club has held together well during this dire period. It would be terrible to get too cocky and then see instability if we fall down. As to Carlton, I reckon there are real problems there!