Curry & Beer

This place has been very quiet and 99% negative this week, unfortunately I think you are right in that it is sympomatic of a supporter group that has had an absolute gutfull with this club. We just didn't need the triple kick in the guts that was the last 3 weeks. Serious worries about the longterm, even shortterm, future. Sigh.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/teams who did you want in? with Salem, Kent, Frost, Pederson, Petracca and Trengove injured, this is our best 22. Nat Fyfe is not at Casey you know

The problem is that he can only come up with Hogan, Brayshaw, Viney, Petracca, Salem, McDonald and Tyson. It's a solid key at each end plus 5 great midfielders, so it's certainly a start. However, not all of them will go on to have great careers for various reasons (fizzle out, injury, leave the club). We are still many players short of the type of squad we currently see at Hawthorn, which is what you need to go all the way. edit: He didn't mention Gawn, who deserves one

he's an all-australian and a premiership player, these are facts, not spin

It really is a touch annoying to have to point out multiple times in one thread that somebody's point has already been mentioned in the OP, exposing the fact they didn't even read it. I already covered this point. You say it is 'simple' to defend for them, well as I've already pointed out, when you put a loose man in the backline you don't get to pull a 19th man off the bench. If they drop a man in front of Hogan, that means somebody, somewhere else is free. Anticipate that they WILL make this counter and immediately double-counter it by swinging into plan 'B' - whereby we utilise this free man as a loose attacker.. if they have gone to a 5-man forwardline then bring the free defender up the field to HF, thereby our defense is now 5-on-5. We can engineer it (by shuffling) so the loose attacker is someone with good skills who doesn't mind a ping, say Tyson, Watts or Vince, then in theory he should be all by himself around CHF while his man is double-teaming Jesse. If there is a 2-on-1 for Jesse then there is a 2-on-1 on the HF line somewhere in our favour. If you talk about them making a 'zone' in there all you are saying is they are not only double teaming but 3 or 4 teaming Jesse, meaning they are leaving even more of our half-forwards unmanned and free to do as they please with the ball around 50 - the enemy can't afford to do this, do you really think you would see 4 or more defenders inside 50 minding Garlett and Hogan while we have 2 or more spare players running around upfield doing as they please? If that is their strategic response, then please, by all means, let them do this because we will just be streaming in under no pressure from the 40-50 metre out region all day. edit: also, your second chunk of words seems to desribe exactly what I am trying to achieve which is to give Hogan and Garlett space to do their thing - yet apparently you are disagreeing with me?

You might have a point regarding clearances from the post-goal bounces, but you'll find that there are only about 26 of those per game - meaning probably only about 10 max. per side actually come straight out of the middle into the 50 (the other 6 are secondary ball-ups, one side goes backwards before going forwards etc) So therefore, it is less than one-fifth of your inside-50s come directly from a centre bounce. Even so, the distance from the hotspot to the centre is about 75 metres, so it pretty much demands one extra possession in there, meaning there is ample time to get from the goalsquare to the hotspot even from a quick centre circle clearance. I'm a nerd aren't I.

oh ffs

yes, we want panic instead

Ala Frawley last year, except swap ends of the ground - Roos knows that Howe is not part of our future. He is letting our forwardline develop without him. He is also trying to build the illusion that Howe is some sort of swingman hence upping his value. We will get an 'overs' return for Howe and hopefully package that with pick 6 or so to get this A+ midfielder Roos is on about.

LOL you wouldn't want to over-dramatise would you It was a game of footy, not 9/11 Utter garbage mate

didn't think so

You are touching extremely closely on a major element of what I have already suggested. I would also like somebody to explain to me why what we are currently doing is superior to a setup as mooted in the OP.

To resemble a properly functioning football team without collectively dropping into putrid form for 3 consecutive weeks or more

I already addressed that

This is what I cannot for the life of me work out - we have listed 122 different players since 2007. How many of them, not including Daniher's boys who retired naturally, have been solid contributors after coming to this club.. the number is shockingly, dismally low.

Our average over the last 3 weeks is 48.33 inside 50s. The league average is 50.6, so we cannot say the last three weeks represents a lack of volume of scoring opportunities. However, we have only kicked 7 goals instead of the average of 12.4. This is partly because we have been kicking badly, but moreso because we are bombing it into congested packs, often in spots where scoring is difficult from, even if the contest isn't completely nullified in the first place (hence lots of behinds). Why in God's name are we wasting the superb marking/goalkicking talent that is Hogan, and the textbook freak crumber that is Garlett, by bombing it in there to packs of 8-10 players, often way out on the boundary, creating totally useless entries that are easily killed? Why can't we play a super basic, super traditional forward setup that is designed to give Hogan and Garlett as many prime, uncongested opportunities as possible? Just clear out the 50 and make everyone know that the idea is to find this pair in prime goalkicking position every single time we go inside 50. - 4 of our 6 forwards are stationed about 65 metres from goal at all times, leaving the 50 totally clear except for: - Hogan and Garlett, who start way inside the goal square. They stay there at all costs until: - Any other player has the ball and is ready to kick from 60-65 metres away from the goal line. It doesn't matter how the ball got to that position or who exactly has it, this is what their instructions are. - When this midfielder/HF is gearing up to kick inside, Hogan bolts straight up the field to the hotspot 25-30 metres from the goal line, Garlett is to be nowhere else but directly front and centre of Hogan. - Whoever has the ball knows this is exactly where Hogan will be leading and therefore he passes it a distance of 30-40 metres low and hard trying to Hogan on the chest. It doesn't matter if this player is right on the boundary 50 metres out, he centres the kick to that prime position. It doesn't matter if he is under so much pressure that he can't even see the hotspot and needs to snap it checkside out of a pack, he will know exactly where to put it. If somebody else has it at CHB they can kick it 60 if they want and hit Hoges about 40 out. This automatically we move faster because nobody is umming and ahhing trying to workout where to give it, handballing backwards etc just kick it to the hotspot son! All roads lead to the hotspot! - Every other player is to stay OUT of the 50 while this is going on, don't charge in there dragging your opponent and creating congestion. Just stay out and be ready to rebound it straight back in should Hogan/Garlett be unsucessful and the enemy is rebounding - they will then have their OWN wall of congestion to get through, on our HF line. -The kick goes to Hulk at the hotspot - As he always does, if he doesn't take the grab he will bring it to ground front and centre where the classy Garlett has a chance to snap one from dead in front 25-30 out. If Hogan does take the grab he of course has a regulation shot at goal. - If the enemy counters this by 'dropping a man in the hole' in effect, double-teaming Hogan, well that means we have an extra number somewhere around that half-forward line (say, Watts, for example) and we launch plan B. It then becomes his job to be loose and everywhere and utilise the extra man to overlap run etc and create other scoring opportunities apart from the now-nullified Hogan/Garlett pair. This will mean players like Jones and Vince will get chances to get loose and kick from around 45-50, which they have shown they can do. The enemy will then be forced to counter back by manning up that damaging loose half-forward and away we go back to plan A. Why does it seem as though so many people, coaches included, act like a spare man in defense is like the enemy having a 19th man!? Obviously if they take this tactic that means they have left one of ours unguarded, so there should always always always be a counter-attack plan to use this loose man to exploit them right back. Can you imagine 40 times a game where Hogan gets a 1-on-1 duel 30 metres from goal in front, with Garlett ready to snaffle up every loose ball the contest creates? It only relies on two basic principles - the other 16 players keeping themselves and thir opponent out of our 50 at all costs, and knowing that kicking it to the hotspot is the prime directive always. We know JH and JG are both very adept at their particular jobs. They should kick 10 between them if they have any sort of day at all and if the blokes kicking it to them at least give them some sort of delivery. Absolutely anything is better than the last 3 weeks where we have been getting a return of 1 goal per 7 entries, it's just not working. Thoughts?

So what? He started with a $0 list at a $0 club

Legendary player whatever way you cut it

Brent Harvey is 7.5 years older than Vince and he ain't finished yet

and youve reiterated it also youre baging Dawes for having a bad game we are discussing the comments he made two different things no doubt if Hogan said the same thing he would be applauded like Viney cos we love him whipping boy status

Youve just reiterated exactly my complaint, referring to Hawthorn as a 'bully' as in we're some weak kid that shouldn't even dare. Shocking mindset that will get you nowhere as a club

It might be becuase we have played deplorable footy for the last 2 weeks and would need to lift considerably to be any chance

They're not comparable because Viney is young enough to still be beloved around here, while Dawes is on the whipping boy list. Same exact act, different reception. Same thing happens with regard to dropped marks, clangers etc.. some players are excused and others aren't.

God we are a weak mob.. with people prefering that our players do not speak confidently about taking on the opposition.. cos we're scared that if we provoke them they will smash us harder when presumably they were going to go easy on us before.. cos you know, we're Melbourne and just pitiful and not worthy of effort or requiring any motivation to beat... so a player like Dawes gets villified for doing exactly what he is supposed to do which is try to lead and inspire a young side against a clearly superior opponent... our players should just say publicly that we absolutely stink and have no chance against the top sides, so prepare yourselves for another miserable belting fmd this place never fails to amaze