DeeSpencer

Lycette's a legitimate ruck. Sinclair can ruck a little but really isn't. With Cox coming towards the end I think the Eagles will be super keen to keep both and if one of them is a back up for injuries then so be it. Considering Nic Nat's injury status you'd want to have both available anyway.

9 days until the draft? Who do you want. Will teams learn a lesson from the 2012 draft class that wasting first round picks on questionable QBs isn't wise. Is Clowney that good?

Maybe it's just a 3 year deal but with different terms for 2015 than his original 2 year deal. I think if you do that you don't have to stick to the initial draft contract. I think draftees get about 50k but like 5k or more per match payment which if he plays every match obviously adds on another 100k to the deal. Possibly renegotiating the contract to give him guaranteed money for 2015 and 2016 (or even 2017) can result in paying the same amount of money as well as having him signed up. Plus you can then front load the contract for salary cap space in the future. There's obvious benefit for getting those who you have a lot of confidence about locked in to contracts so you can start getting an idea of where you have room to move.

Don't know much about the families background and I'm very sorry if I'm wrong but I think his fathers passed away and his immediate family have been in Victoria for years. He played TAC for Oakleigh and went to Trinity College. Don't think there's any go home risk

Just wanted to say one thing about depression. We obviously don't know all it's secrets but there is definitely some biochemical effect involved in some cases. 10, 20, 50 years from now we might know all about it and point straight to a simple chemical imbalance, I hope so. But until then the lack of knowledge fuels the 'mentally weak' and 'soft' brigade. But I just wanted to say is we know Mitch had at least 2 operations on his foot right - the initial one and the removal of the screw. If you google you can find plenty of evidence showing that general anaesthetics can lead to depression. Not saying that's the case here but it's food for thought for anyone stupid enough to consider the nature of depression.

It would be a tremendously brave thing to do but I think it would help. Mental illness is obviously different but if it were a physical illness he'd have a media conference, explain some feelings, probably be incredibly emotional but everyone would support him. That's what Jim did. And if we can start viewing depression as a blameless illness like cancer we'd be better off If people on demonland can't even come to grips with this decision how can the rest of the community?

In contrast to the above this is a shot at Clark - I wonder if he could've braved a media conference and delivered some words and emotion for all us. And to the club - a hasty press conference from Josh Mahoney seemed a bit light weight for our highest paid and arguably best player retiring at 26. I would've preferred Roos or Jackson as well and as I said above Clark. I understand this is a sensitive time for him but I think he missed an opportunity to help himself and for the club to close a significant chapter in a bold way.

This is not a shot at Mitch or MFC But: I'd like someone to say that Clark is retiring as it's what he wants or has been advised to do to overcome his depression Andrew Robb the federal trade minister had depression, stayed in politics and now just inked a trade deal with Japan It's wrong to assume depression itself is a career ending injury however it has been viewed that way in this case. The other thing is often the best way to overcome depression is to continue in work even in reduced capacity to create routine etc. Players retiring through depression boosts the profile of the illness, but players stepping away or modified duties before returning to full AFL is what would really help.

Looking forward to them all. Particularly keen to see how Harmes and Hunt shape up at VFL level. I like Harmes at training he seems to have a crack at everything and could make a nice depth mid pretty adept at most aspects of footy. Hopefully he can put in some decent VFL performances. Hunt as well, some pure speed off half back would be great for this team. Obviously pretty skinny and raw but another who could develop nicely. If Georgiou is a confident and competent 3rd tall defender from deep in the rookie draft he must win the find of the year. JKH was pick 40 but he was also our second pick, we were obviously pretty keen on him and his training efforts were great he was switched on from day 1. But it's still early days for him. If he plays well he'll then draw interest from better defenders and so on. Have to remember it's not where these young guys start but where they end up in a few years time. And that applies to both rusty debut performances and great early career form.

Cleveland the other big movers replacing their safety in Ward with a more expensive one in Whitner and signing Dansby. They'll likely have a very good defense but still be limited by QB play on offense.

Not completely surprised he got another go considering he was a first round pick etc. But surprised the 49ers traded anything at all for him. And now they've followed it up with Jonathan Martin. Seems they believe in their powers to turn players around. Bears today got Lamarr Houston from Oakland on a 5 year 35 mil contract for the 26 year old DE. Seems more a solid run stopping DE than a big sack guy but he helps our defense. Plus we got a cheapish safety. And resigned our MLB. Still need to add another DE, DT, CB and probably another depth safety whether it's our own free agents coming back or not. There were some interesting deals around the league. The saints landing Byrd the safety. They might transition from a great offense no defense to a pretty good defense but not such a great offense. Broncos have been the biggest movers I think bringing in TJ Ward at safety and Aqib Talib at CB. And there' the favourites for Ware. That would give them some serious improvement on defense. Revis rumoured to the patriots. That would be huge.

I think we will have a clearer picture on the key forwards in 12 months time. We only need one of Clark, Dawes or Fitzpatrick to recover from injury/assert themselves at AFL level and when matched with Hogan and Howe we should be fine. If Frawley leaves we will be looking at a key defender. Either way we've got a decent relationship going with GWS and their young tall Kristian Jaksch who was a school team mate of Viney's is half way back to Victoria if reports are to be believed. It wouldn't surprise me if we keep doing trades with them just like this year and drop back in the draft in order to get some of their slightly more ready to go former high draft picks in return. I think Roos will continue to value pick 10 or pick 20 plus a ready to step up talent over yet another top 5 pick.

You said the reason Taggert was delisted had nothing to do with the coach or recruiters choice? Now you say it is attitude. Well isn't part of the predraft screening an interview and background checks to work out what guys attitudes will be like? Wasn't Taggert the one who sent Neeld an email about why he should be picked or something of the like? Either way I don't want to focus on the past too much but I'm sure character is one of Viney/Taylor's key recruiting principles.

Well care to spill? Personally I thought his skills and potential upside showed enough despite modest output. From the limited I saw of him, plus training, plus stats he certainly didn't get involved in games enough but seemed to have the ability in skills to mark, kick, tackle, handball etc. So if he got a preseason or two under his belt he may have taken it up a notch. There was also something a bit odd in that his VFL performances were reasonable and pretty much the whole list got a game besides him. I'd be guessing but I'd say it was either - His attitude/training/preparation was poor or - His body was a concern and thus they didn't think they'd ever get him to AFL fitness I haven't said anything about Neeld in this thread and not too many have. I've said BP was a bad recruiter but I've got no problem with that statement. His draft record (even influenced by substandard development) is pretty ordinary. Last I checked he's got a job at Carlton (not in recruiting) and is probably doing well. From my understanding he wasn't a specialist recruiter when Melbourne hired him and so I'd put the decision to hire him for that position as a club wide failure. That means the board and by extension us, the CEO, the coach (Bailey), the head of footy are all to blame. This thread was created to look back. It was a shocking time. Therefore the reflections will not be great. As long as the discussion is mainly about where and why not who then I don't see the need to be upset. Neeld and Prendergast will be mentioned, it doesn't have to result in outrage.

I'm hoping our tall forwards and rucks get fit and on the park this year and show what they can do. And of course that we sign Frawley. So for a needs basis to the team I think we will be looking at a young key defender to develop up as depth but besides that just getting the best available running players whether they are inside or outside mids or forwards or backs. Preferably we get someone who has versatility. A skillful left footed half back flank would be lovely to give some balance to the backline. And I wouldn't be opposed to another 205cm plus genuine big ruck prospect to develop in behind Gawn and Spencer. King looks good so far but at 200cm without a massive leap he's on the small side for modern rucks.

2011 draft in a nutshell - Rubbish draft due to GWS/Gold Coast picks and concessions - Rubbish recruiter in Prendergast - Rubbish coach in Neeld putting pressure on the recruiter to get experienced ready to go types in - Right call on Mitch Clark - We now have pick 3 from that Draft in Dom Tyson From the rest of the draft the players who I'd consider the real standouts are: Coniglio (2), Wingard (6), Ellis (15), Mitchell (21 F/S). There are plenty of other nice prospects - Patton and most of the other GWS boys, Adams, Yeo, Kerridge, Grigg, Brad Hill, Clay Smith, Sheridan, Sutcliff, Neale. Either way we've got Mitch Clark. We've got back in to the draft in getting Tyson who has shown enough to think he can be a top 5 or 10 player from the draft. It wasn't an amazing draft but there was enough there that with either pick 36 (Taggart) or 52 (Tynan) that you would get one guy who's at least shown something and is still on the list. Anyway there's a reason BP isn't still our recruiter and Neeld isn't our coach.

We all knew the SeaHawks defense was good, but who knew it was that good! They played lights out. The additions of Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril to give them the pass rush made all the difference today. And Wilson's early 3rd down percentage was insane. The Broncos D as I predicted were capable of stopping the run and creating chances to get off the field but after watching them take care of the Pats so easily I didn't expect the Broncos secondary to be torched on 3rd down by Wilson and his unheralded receivers. Injuries aren't an excuse as both sides have them but you can see that the Bronco's elite O line was showed up with the back up LT not up to it as well as the Broncos secondary not covering the injuries. Those two combined to make the game much harder for Manning and much easier for Wilson. Watching Wilson win a SB, Kap go close, Luck, Dalton and Newton make play off runs I do wonder if the new rules are making QB play a bit less important and the saving of about 16 million dollars on having a rookie QB instead of a Franchise QB is worth while. But then you see Brady, Brees and Manning all make the play offs as well. But then the teams at the bottom of league with rubbish rookie QBs (Minn, Buff, Jacksonville, Cleveland etc) will tell you otherwise. It does make me worried about my Bears. We've spent the 16 mil on Cutler so we don't have the money to spend on the top defense and we don't have the gun QB to show for it either. I feel teams with mid level veteran QBs on big pay cheques are stuck in a cycle they can't break or afford to break. Cowboys, Lions, Cardinals, Giants, there'd be a few who agree I think. Anyway this SeaHawks team was a massive victory for Carroll with his GM and his drafting and developing. They've pretty much drafted an elite defense with early and late picks and drafted a gun QB in the third round. The draft v develop question will kind of raise it's head but I think they've been outstanding at both. Carroll's bond with his players and his development of not only a select bunch of players but of the whole organisation as improving football players says a lot for a positive coach. I'm hoping the change from Neeld to Roos brings out a similar culture for us. The PED and Adderall issue does linger over this team a little though. They have to stay clean now to back it up.

Wow the highs and lows of this thread. From his initial anger at the medical system which you could kind of tell was his frustration but then his positive attitude through chemo and the follow up. As if tragedy can be any worse but I do wish we got to hear from him when things went south again. I hope people were there for him. Sadly in the nearly 4 and a half years since his first post Melbourne haven't become a good side and now reading about Watts, Scully and Jurrah depresses us all. But it sure gets put in to perspective. Also sad is that Dean Bailey late last year obviously found himself in a very similar situation to Twosheds.

But remember Kap probably has the best O line in football as well as the 3 quality receiving options in Crabtree, Boldin and Davis. Any above average QB has tremendous success with that talent around him and the 49ers defense IF (and it's a big if) they aren't playing Seattle in Seattle! For Seattle to win the superbowl they are going to have to run the ball on the Broncos which the Pats showed today is incredibly hard. I don't see Seattle getting enough offense unless Lynch gets over 100 rushing. Then their defense will have to get enough pressure on Manning. For the talk of their dominant secondary with Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas it wont matter because Manning will find mismatches on back up corners and linebackers, he simply has too many weapons. It's going to have to be the front 4 of Seattle stopping the run and putting pressure on Manning. My tip is low scoring and very close and one of the QB's will get a final drive to either cement the legacy (in Peyton) or make one for themselves. Could be a bit similar to the 2008 SB between New England and NYG.

As a bears fan I'm thinking Zimmer is a good hire who's defense can become the best of a bad bunch in the NFC North and then with a running game you can control games and be a reasonable team. Or that's what I was thinking until you hired Norval as OC!!! Chasing the franchise QB always seems to be the plan but with 2 years coming up playing outdoors I wonder if you aren't better off sticking with Cassell who I think can be ok. Use the first round pick on the best talent available and build a defense and the rest of the offense around ball control and run. Draft a QB in the second or third round when you aren't overspending and let them develop at whatever pace they need. That's the tactic that worked well for the two teams in the NFC teams playing today as well as for the Eagles.

Obviously the Seahawks defense is just amazing. And looking at that game I really thought it was like get to 20 points and you'll probably win kind of game. The Seahawks found a way to make amazing plays whilst the 49ers didn't. But I think a lot of it is on Kap. The first intercept was a shocker (then again Wilson had the fumble on the first play) and the end zone INT just wasn't quite a good enough throw. I get NFL players are a different bread of athletes than AFL or practically any other but I think Kap needs to ditch the headphones and casual clothes and shape up a bit. He just doesn't look smart enough to be a clutch QB and if you don't look it you might not be it. That's harsh on a guy who's a great talent but perception can be reality. At the same time Richard Sherman. Not sure if I hate you or love you but I'd gladly have you playing half back flank for the dees. Oh and Manning or a receiver will likely win the MVP if the Broncs win the superbowl but my tip for the real difference maker is Terrence Knighton the big DT from Denver. He was largely responsible for shutting out the Pats running game and he had a big sack. Plus his nickname is Pot Roast!

Marsh not had a shot? He's 30, played 7 tests. Has a shield average of only 35 and only 31 this year. Plenty of off field troubles as well. Marsh is selected because they want him to succeed not because he's earned it or shown any signs that he will. I really hope they play Doolan or Faulkner ahead of Marsh. The one positive of this squad at least is that by including 2 back up number 3's and a buck up all rounder the writing is well and truly on the wall for Watson. The Chris Rogers dream wont last for ever either I guess so within 12 months we could need an opener (?Marsh), number 3 (Doolan/Hughes) and have Faulkner in at 6. The other surprise is that they aren't taking Wade on this tour. They seem keen to avoid the question of who the next keeper is even though I think Wade has done enough to still have that spot.

Chiefs 27 Colts 31 - Chiefs the better team but I'm hoping for some Luck Saints 24 Eagles 30 - Too cold for the saints Chargers 13 Bengals 24 - Defense 49ers 16 Packers 14 - Defense

The AFC really is a bit of a mess isn't it. Denver and New England just don't fill you with confidence the way they play defense and no Gronk takes the pats offense down a peg. They have to do something about targetting knees. Not just a fine but a straight hit to the knee of a defenseless receiver should be a week off. Indy are shot and at the end of the day it's still Andy Dalton at QB for the Bengals. Can he beat one of Brady or Manning in the play offs? I'd say so. But two in a row like the ravens did last year? KC are every shot to beat Indy week 1 but then how do they beat Denver? They've tried twice and can't. And the last wildcard - Miami or Balltimore maybe, they shouldn't beat the bengals. The 49ers struggle the same way that Cinncinatti do when you talk about beating good teams 2 weeks in a row. They're every chance to beat whoever they come up against week 1 from the NFC North or East but then likely taking on New Orleans before then getting Seattle (or vice versa) - good luck with that. The play offs always throw up surprises but with their records at home I can't see how the NFC championship game wont be played at either New Orleans or more likely Seattle and how the home team wont win. I suppose the biggest factor is injuries that's about it.

And most of them have either been right or worked out right. But that was a head scratcher although Gould is one of the best kickers of all time so it's a huge surprise we missed it. Season is over now for the Bears but with our defense it's been over in reality since very early. Tough decisions coming up on Cutler, Melton, Peppers, Tilman and many others for the bears.