DeeSpencer

Haha sure. I can think of 2 reasons: 1. Something is better than nothing 2. We paid good cash for Preuss, it's salary better used somewhere else.

I think our kicking problems aren't horrendous but they broadly break down in to 3 categories: 1. Switching/slow build up game: We're light on for defenders and outside mids who we truly trust to play the switch and slow game. Langdon's always running to provide an option. And May, Salem and Rivers are very good. But there's a drop off and to play that way you need all 7 defenders and 2 wings and even the inside mids pushing out to work for each other and trust each other. 2. Reliably hitting the long target: Gawn rarely loses a long down the line kick yet we still can't routinely park the ball to his advantage at the perfect spot. Yet alone when we have Weid or another forward coming under it. It should be so simple but too many of our players get this basic kick wrong. A second key forward who can move (so not Preuss or Tom) and can compete and bring the ball to ground (so not Brown or McDonald) obviously makes this an easier task 3. Hitting the leading forward: Petracca can lace it to anyone within 60m. Melksham doesn't get it as often but still can. Fritsch is capable of excellent hit up kicks. Pickett has great promise and both Spargo and ANB were vastly improved at the end of the year. So there's hope with the half forwards. Viney got much better. Gus was still hit and miss. Oliver started to trust himself more but the results are still very patchy. Langdon only trusts himself to hit a pop up 30m pass that's a forward killer because it just sits in the air. If Oliver can make strides, we can find a second wingman and if we find some trusty defensive depth we'll probably be at least average. Even the best sides like Richmond and Port are moving the ball smartly then hitting the spots for Lynch and Dixon to contest far more than they are picking out targets with great kicks.

With less games and no opportunity to watch live it's harder than ever to work out where the problems are. That said: Forwards: I actually think we did a pretty good job creating space, pushing up for the outlet kicks and getting sustainable pressure and corridor coverage. There were games we struggled to score in but I saw that as more when the ball use up the ground fell apart and when we lacked forwards who can create goals from slower entries. Overall I had no issue with the forward coaching. Backs: The game plan seemed improved. We managed to get good representation down the line for slow plays as well as keep the backline deep enough to not get exposed out the back. The ball use out of the backline was pretty solid too. May was great. In the games where the pressure was on up the field Lever had chances to be great. My biggest concern is the lack of development of the lesser defenders. Apart from Rivers coming in we saw a cycling through of Smith, Oscar, Tomlinson, Harmes, J Wagner, Jetta and Lockhart. Chaplin strikes me as a coach who's good on paper but lacks the ability to hone the basics. Smith, Oscar and Tomlinson in particular had bad habits of zoning the pockets rather than staying corridor side and didn't seem to have the ability to spoil with both arms. Midfield: This is my biggest worry. Gawn was often way off base with the mids. There was little team work between the mids and there were big lapses in basic set up at times too. Why did it take weeks to get Viney to look up and choose his targets? Why did it take weeks for Oliver to start using his legs? It even took a while to start finding and using Langdon on the wings when he was clearly wide open. Given the amount of experienced, mature and settled talent available I thought the midfield coaching was the poorest group.

We’ve bloated our salary cap with deals like Tomlinson, so if we can get out of Preuss’ cash and use the pick and cash on a best 22 player I think we should. Jackson is the number 2. If Bradtke isn’t the number 3 then we should look through the state leagues and other clubs back ups for a cheap number 3.

It’s been reported multiple times that by about round 5 last year Scott said we need to aggressively rebuild. Whilst the North staff and Shaw thought the list was good enough to keep going with what they got. They did a pick swap with us but didn’t make significant list moves last year. Imagine what they would’ve got for Brown, Polec and Higgins last year? Goldy and Higgins had deals on the table from Geelong and North said no. Im certainly not sold on Polec but if I were him I’d be struggling for motivation too. He’s come to a club that’s not only shifted their intentions but taken a year longer than they needed to. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/debate-over-north-melbourne-rebuild-as-fagan-defends-charlie-cameron-20200815-p55m01.html Upon taking over as senior coach after Brad Scott departed last season, Shaw had faith the Roos did not need a major overhaul, something Scott reportedly felt was the case. However, now in his first full season in charge and dealing with life in a hub, Shaw admitted on Saturday his mindset had changed. "I was really confident going into the pre-season of where we stood. I don't think injuries have helped our situation. We have been decimated by injuries throughout the year," he said pre-match on Fox Footy. "We found out about a few people and we will continue to find out. I think it (his mindset) has probably changed a bit but, in saying that, I am clearly adapting to what the situation entails. I am really looking forward to what we can do. We have a great young list ... I am really excited about that and looking forward to the future."

So what did Shaw do last year when he changed the North game plan to long bombs down the line and ground out a number of wins and talked up their finals chances? Not a single person said rebuild with North this year until they started losing. And the first thing Shaw started talking about was toughness, a vague and mostly useless term when talking about AFL footballers. Justin Longmuir is a guy who has clearly stamped a culture on Freo. All the malingerers went straight out of the side. A clear game plan that is defensive first but still moves the ball was implemented. And guess what - Freo won a number of games, so they've changed the culture towards winning. Shaw has just created a cultural vacuum that he now needs to fill. Jed Anderson can't kick at all. Why didn't Shaw ask him to play half back flank and have 20 kicks a game? Trying to make Polec tag Cripps as a way of stamping your authority on a playing group is just BS. I've got no issue with Polec getting dropped. Or even have him play half back flank and deal with the poor up field defending or cover a man. And I absolutely hope the Melbourne coaches are very thorough determining if Polec does do enough defensive running and contested work. But I won't hold it against Polec that a young coach tried to fit a square peg in a round hole and then found out it didn't work.

No thanks. He'd take games from Weideman who is ready and willing to nail that full forward spot. With limited list spots we need to find the guy who compliments Weid, Jackson, Pickett, Fritsch. Those 4 have enough talent to form the basis of a very good forward line, they are just lacking an experienced leader to guide them along. One option is giving Melksham a significant kick in the backside. Otherwise it's really hard to find experienced forwards. Talls probably aren't the right spot to look, it might have to be a small or even a midfielder ready for a different chapter of their career.

Jed Anderson played on him for the next 3 quarters so unless Polec and Anderson took it upon themselves to do what they should've done from the start of the game I don't think that's true. Polec certainly didn't try very hard to tag him in the first quarter though.

You mean the way he tackled Shuey almost around his waist before Shuey flat out cheated?

Seemingly every AFL player watches the NBA. And seemingly every NBA player who is on a bad team likes to jump off as soon as they can - contract or no contract - and get to a good team. Guys are now getting paid enough that whether it's as free agents or pre-agents (the year prior or maybe even 2 years prior) they will start pushing for trades if their club doesn't have a path to success. One look at the B+F results tells us our best 12 players are in their premiership window. After that the votes drop away to a few almost players in Melk, Vanders and Tomlinson. Almost good, almost not worthy of games. And 3 kids in their first season. If I were a top player I'd be sending out a pretty strong message - let's build up this playing like with trades/draft/development/coaching etc because we've got the core of guys in their prime. And we better start doing something with it and soon otherwise it's wasting the best years.

Clayton's offseason to do list: 1. Keep working on getting his arms free and legs moving at a stoppage 2. Learn how to ride contact and dish handballs rather than simply avoid it 3. Develop range on his kicks, a long and high clearing kick and a short hit up kick 4. Find a left foot 5. Stop playing on at all costs, in particular no more advantage! 6. Become more comfortable in the media so he can be a public leader 7. Get traded to Carlton Seems legit.

Yep. At least when we did it with Watts we dressed it up a bit as though it was going to be better for him to go rather than stay. Plus we were never getting much anyway. North have tanked Brown's value and now they've told him to go find a new club he's in an even stronger spot for that new club to say we aren't paying all that much for this guy.

Joe last year: 25.6 years old, 2 years removed from a 65 goals, 352 disposal, 153 mark season. Ben this year: 27.9, 1 year removed from a 64 goals, 108, 244 disposal season. If we say key forwards are done at 30 then Joe had 4 or 5 years of peak and a better peak - 50% more marks and disposals. Ben has 2 or 3 years of peak and it's a lower peak. The age factor is the key. You can't pay too much for a guy who's only giving a few seasons even if they are good seasons.

Is Shaw attempting to build good habits or is he a desperate young coach preaching a mantra of contest and physicality because he doesn't have the ability to teach skills and ball movement? Shaw has decided that at age 27 despite playing the same way for his career Polec needs to add hardness and contested ball winning. So he sends him to tag Cripps. A move that pretty much anyone would suggest isn't smart. It's a disaster. He then frees up Polec from the tag - but still has him play on ball - and he gets 25 touches and is key part to North's comeback. David Teague gave Polec the 4 coaches votes in that game. So he was clearly aware of his value. Polec is nearly 28 and on a fat contract for 3 more years that will likely still be chunky no matter which was you slice it, so that's a concern. And whether it's the defensive running, lack of hardness at the contest of very left sided-ness there's certainly some concerns. But it's also an opportunity where you've got a coach putting his foot down for whatever reason and very much devaluing an asset. If we're smart we down play it and don't show any more interest than the possibility of doing North a favour and taking a bit of cash from their books. Like the Cats with Josh Jenkins. Have it all happen late and with a minimum of interest. But if we get him stuff all there's no way he's not a huge improvement on what we have.

North 2019 - 7th (Ben Cunnington 242, Robbie Tarrant 227, Todd Goldstein 192*, Trent Dumont 192, Ben Brown 190*, Jack Ziebell 190, Jared Polec 184, Shaun Higgins 170, Jasper Pittard 169, Shaun Atley 158) Port 2018 - 5th (1. Justin Westhoff 179 , 2. Tom Jonas 162, 2. Ollie Wines 162, 4. Robbie Gray 152, 5. Jared Polec 151, 6. Chad Wingard 143, 7. Darcy Byrne-Jones 139 8. Dan Houston 131, 9. Travis Boak 126, 10. Tom Clurey 110) Port 2017 - 22 games, Not top 10 Port 2016 - 17 games, not top 10 Port 2015 - 5 games Port 2014 - 24 games - not top 10 So he didn't get a lot of votes earlier in his career but the two years prior to his one he's been surrounded by very good footballers in the Port count and behind some handy names at North. There's probably enough evidence to say he's not perfect but he does bring a fair bit to the table.

I significantly doubt that. He's always been super professional and a great runner. Guys should add a bit of muscle over summer or lockdown when they aren't copping all the bumps and bruises of games, and especially coming back from a knee injury they would've done a lot of work on Tom's leg strength. I reckon the shaved head and tight match day jumper plus the early season muscles on his shoulders and legs might've given him a look of bulk but he never had an ounce of excess weight and the same lean running build. If there's anything that the lockdown did it might well be that Tom is the kind of guy who needs a lot of skill work and touch. Usually it's 4 months of it over summer. Covid training in a pair where all you can do is kick to kick or handballs just isn't the same. And even the movement drills would've been different. A lot of straight line running just training with a partner. Instead of 4 months of actual footy movement. I think he can be better next year. But if he just won't ever move the same as he did in 2018 will he be better enough that he's more value than Jackson, Weid or even Petty? And if there's a way out of his contract (or a chunk of it) and to bring someone else in then does it really matter?

He's no chance of getting traded and if you chucked him in this draft group I'd imagine he'd go somewhere between picks 3-7 I just wasn't too fussy with the categories. He's not the same value as Petracca or Oliver and would go somewhere in the top 10 that's all. Similarly Rivers I'd imagine could go slightly earlier than 15. I considered bumping up Fritsch, Lever and Viney too but I think teams would be reluctant to straight up trade a first rounder for any of them. You can find inside mids and shaky tall defenders elsewhere for less.

No, I just don't overrate our list or what other clubs would pay for them. There's no reason for us to trade most of our best players, the majority of which are contracted anyway so we'd rightfully ask for a lot more to give them up. There's a couple of guys I might sneak up a little bit but if they played for other clubs that's about what I'd pay for these players.

Top 5 pick and more: Petracca, Oliver Top 10 pick: Jackson 15-20: Rivers, Salem, Pickett, Gawn, May 20-25: Fritsch, Viney, Langdon, Lever, Weideman 30-40: Sparrow, Petty, Brayshaw (with cash), Harmes 40+ pick upgrades: McDonald (with cash), Spargo, Hunt, ANB No draft value: The rest

Most years we keep 1 or 2 guys in limbo depending on the outcomes of the trade period. When you add in list sizes still up for debate and probably a 1-2 player swing on those negotiations that’s 4 spots. Add in the draft class surely being one of the most difficult to assess of the professional era and it’s a lot of uncertainty. I hope no player wants to be delisted but at least these 3 have some certainty. It might be a rough time for half a dozen more.

Otherwise: Centre square: 1. Gawn: is not always a great centre square ruck. Doesn't jump - especially when coming back from a PCL, so often hits to one area of the clockface. Battles as well as he can to follow up but it's hard for him to chase guys far younger and quicker. Jackson hopefully starts to see some centre square time next year, he can be a real weapon in there. 2. Individually: the mids all have some issues. Brayshaw can't defend. Petracca isn't great at it either. Viney battles to give off creative handballs to free runners. And Oliver. Oliver gets sat on and then gives hot potato handballs unless he's going backwards or at best sideways, his lack of left foot or confidence in his right means he's nowhere near the centre bounce player he should be. Doesn't get any help from the umps for holding either. 3. Balance: The issues above compound each other. Brayshaw's the best link player of our mids - dishing or receiving handballs, but Goodwin doesn't trust him to defend. Viney had a period of not trusting his kicking like Oliver. All 3 of Viney, Petracca and Clarry both love diving in at the ball leaving no one to get the handball. Around the ground: 1. Team work and structure. We're often lazy to set up or not on the same page as Max. 2. Poor quality half back flankers/half forward flankers/wingers. Salem and Rivers off half back are handy stoppage players, and Vanders sure has his moments on a wing. Otherwise Langdon isn't and our half forwards are often poor unless it's Tracc playing forward and rolling up to the stoppage.

Does any have a breakdown of the stats? AFL tables isn't updated yet for round 18 but we had 458 clearances for and 436 clearances against. If we're winning more than we concede then we really can't be 15th. We also had 684 inside 50's whilst conceding 641. Not a huge difference, but I'd imagine it's much harder to win a clearance in your own forward line when you're trying to kick a goal than it is to win a clearance in your backline where the aim is to just get it and hoof it clear.

I think they pick between Viney and Brad Crouch as free agents to replace Tim Kelly. Then use the picks start finding some tall prospects. Of course Daniher and Cameron will have a street in Torquay with their names on it if they wish to head down the highway

If we don’t match we get compo. Could be a start of the second round pick. Most likely is after our second rounder. If we do match we either keep him or trade him to Geelong. In which case we can ask for a deal involving one of their 3 first round picks. Currently 11, 15 and 16. Of course the risk there is that they’d probably be a lot less interested if they had to trade.

Disagree. He had a sustained run of form when the team was firing and before we started playing 3 games in a week in a tropical cyclone that was as good as any key forward in the comp not named Hawkins or Dixon. He was taking marks on gun defenders like Harris Andrews and Darcy Moore. 19 goals in 13 shortened games actually becomes 40 goals in 22 full length games. And whilst that doesn't sound much it takes a good forward to do much more than that these days. He has to make strides with his body to make sure he's durable enough to get through 22 full length games but if he does do that he'll be getting to more contests and finding more cheap ball as well. So it's a win-win.