Binmans PA

I wasn't aware we went after Monfries. That's interesting if true. Where did you hear that? I wouldn't say no to him, but I think we have his position covered with Howe. Our bloke is more flexible though. I wouldn't class Monfries as a crumber. I believe we need at least one, probably two crumbers. We need to ensure defensive pressure is apparent coming out of our attacking 50. The threat of being run down by a speedster cannot be underestimated. Additional pressure for defenders to deal with. Remember how effective Davey was in this role, albeit in a different era?

Exactly. I mentioned in a thread the other day, I don't believe I've seen an absolute champion midfielder in my 25 years.

Well said, Dee-luded. Processes are vital. Non-negotiables and in particular adherence to defensive and attacking structures, are arguably the most crucial points to both the short and long term success of our club. We can make all the personnel changes in the world, but if the players aren't meeting these non-negotiables, it's thoroughly futile. Now I admit we're only five games in, but in terms of our list, where specifically can you see the improvement coming from?

Concur again, Stuie. So essentially by 2014, we'd have a new A grade mid (say the free agent), a mature-bodied 24-27 year old B grade mid, two youngsters to compete with the Matt Jones's and another player hopefully putting pressure on Jamar and Spencer. Gawn is coming along beautifully. Hopefully he can stay injury free and continue to improve his tap work. His work rate around the ground, his marking and his kicking have all risen to another level. Really impressed with Big Maxy. Now if Nathan Jones continues his rise to A grade, Viney and Toumpas with season's under their belt, plus those new ins, I think we're looking at strong improvement, providing the mindset is strengthened. Come 2014, with another pre season under Misson and the injection of another key forward in Hogan (covering the probable injuries throughout the season to Clark and Dawes), providing our work rate and structures have improved, the MFC will have a chance to finally push some teams.

I completely agree, Jerry. Our midfield will be in good shape if Jones is the third or fourth in line. It means he doesn't get the tag. He was leading clearance winner in the competition over the first couple of weeks, but was obviously tagged out of it yesterday. I think Viney has the ability to learn fast, but I concur with the idea that we need at least another one or two cusp of A grade mids. It will elevate our entire midfield. The likes of Trengove will lift another peg and it would allow he and Toumpas to be the icing on the cake.

Whether you're leaning one way or the other with Neeld and his football department, I was hoping we might be able to constructively debate where improvement in our list might come from. It's sad that I'm already looking to the future for solace this early into the season, but at least we may provide ourselves with reason to be positive. Without simply proffering "sack the coach", "sack the midfield" etc, which areas do we think we might have covered and which positions require strengthening? Will one or two A grade midfielders fix our problems or are there other positional weaknesses that will prevent improvement? Let's think about the three lines: Midfielders Defenders Forwards What are 'Landers thoughts on our midfield, past merely "it's rubbish"? Who do we think is showing something and may have the attributes to take it to that next level? What sort of midfield mix do we think is required to not just become competitive at AFL level, but compete with the top teams? Attributes like hardened bodies, experience, speed, endurance, ball winning ability etc. Can we constructively pinpoint three or four mids who may have what it takes? How many of these might we need? Depth should be taken into account too. With regards to the backline, is it as simple as purely winning clearances, implementing midfield pressure across the ground, adhering to and setting up structures or are some backs not up to it? We know our backline is struggling with the onslaught of opposition inside 50s, but who has the defensive techniques, skills and upside to remain in the back six once we dig ourselves out of this hole? Arguably the line with the greatest upside is the forward half. How things change, given that only three years ago our defence was donned "The Great Wall". Clark, Dawes and Hogan present promising key position forward stocks. Putting aside the need for midfielders, what are your thoughts on our key position stocks? The well-worn adage that I keep leaning on during this frankly depressing era is that things can turn around quickly. Ultimately, I hope this discussion can identify that we don't have as far to go as we think.

I think Clark is a natural leader, but he's on the park less than Grimes. Trengove should remain captain.

I'll tell you, next week it's going to get ugly. 100 point loss, nothing surer. Our midfield is not just low on genuine ball winners, it's coached horribly. I don't believe in the zone, but if it were to ever work, it would certainly need work rate from the midfield. I dread to even comprehend next week.

We talk about replacing Moloney's big body in the midfield...we had a guy out there today with a big body, who can influence the contest when he feels like it and is a far more talented player than Moloney. His issues are essentially the same as the former's though. It's between the ears. His name is Colin Sylvia.

Talk about encourage supporter discontent. Pathetic comments. It's as if he has no idea where we've been since 2007. Have some respect for the supporter base. "We thought that under five goals on the road was a positive". Supporters won't cop this sort of defeatist attitude. I certainly won't. He is constantly attempting to 'measure' expectations, to the point where it will negatively impact player performance and is undoubtedly fostering complacency within the club.

Positives: * The continued form of Evans. Knows where to go, has great skills. How was that pass on his wrong foot to Watts? * Garland beat his man again and backed up his GWS form. * Watts showed a little bit. Attacked some of the contests. His sublime kicking for goal didn't surprise me. Has to play forward again next week. * Despite the negative talk on here, I thought Trengove's game for the majority was actually really impressive, minus one or two hiccups here and there. * Gawn's kicking for goal and general work rate. * Some of our early ball movement, particularly in the first quarter. * Some of Matt Jones' stoppage work. Negatives: * The work rate is still abysmal. Particularly by our midfield. * The zonal stuff is not working. Get rid of it. Teach our players to play one on one football. * The stoppage set ups are STILL yet to be addressed. This makes say a Jordie McKenzie look even slower. * Sylvia can't get it done again. Went missing for large patches and struggled to influence the game. * Tom McDonald worked himself into the game and had a reasonably second half. His first half was appalling. * Lazy turn overs - a number of kicks into the man on the mark. One certainly directly resulted in a Brisbane goal. * Jamar's inability to both tap past his feet and create a contest outside of the centre square. He kicked one long, good goal (two contested marks in two weeks for the first time since probably 2010), but his lack of pace consistently makes him a liability around the ground.

Strongly disagree. His disposal was generally pretty good today. He turned it over two, maybe three times, but won it plenty and continues to rack up the tackles. Can't believe we're having a go at Trengove. There were probably 13 or 14 others today who were very, very ordinary. Trengove's B grade. Once he's up to full fitness and the overloading takes less toll on his lower body, he'll elevate himself to A grade. Least of our problems. He doesn't turn it over like his co-captain. My god.

Thought he beat Brown. Pretty harsh. The midfield was hopeless again. Neeld and his team (ie Royal) have yet to improve our set ups from stoppages. The players don't work hard enough and our defenders are exposed on the fast break or have nobody to kick it to once they've won the ball back.

If this is true, how long has Greaves been in the role? We certainly showed no signs of structure improvement in the midfield last week. Still horribly disorganised.

Glad he's gone. Simple as that.

Sorry to be argumentative, but I'd disagree with this. It's pressure acts, providing a contest and importantly structure. I'll agree, he gave away two or three free kicks, but his leadership is unquestionable. I felt he struggled in the contested marking situation, but he was rarely outmarked and the ball usually fell to the deck. Well, we were talking about the final quarter and upon re-watching that the other day, I wouldn't be surprised if roughly 50% of our attacking thrusts in the final quarter were directed at Gawn. Naturally, we didn't need to go there all the time, because our midfielders were kicking goals themselves, but if that midfield pressure is heightened, we'll need a tall target who can take contested marks. I'm glad Gawn proved he can take contested marks (as he should, 209cm isn't he?), which should give Gawn and the guys kicking it into him this week, confidence that he can get the job done.I wish they'd bring Spencer in to ruck along with Gawn too, but the FD seem to like Jamar. Can't see it happening unfortunately.

We did actually. Scully and Trengove both missed the game down at Geelong, the now infamous 186. Admittedly, it was Round 12, not after Round 4. They seem to be managing young Jack well.

It depends how the rest of the team is moving and whether they're presenting options.

I'd say it's excellent in fact. It's been that way for a while now.

We were still bombing it to the square to Gawn though, Chook. Yes, Gawn doesn't carry the same focus as Mitch, but I think we'll really struggle to kick a winning score this weekend. Even if Clark isn't kicking bags, he straightens us up significantly.

You obviously missed his Franklinesque run down the boundary line and pass to Pedo? He didn't hold onto his contested marks last week, I'll agree, but he was playing hampered by injury and was still able to influence the game in stanzas.

We talk about important pieces of the MFC puzzle. Long term, he's essentially the top piece for me. Yes, we need an A grade midfield, but I still consider him the premier defender in the league. Put a decent midfield in front him and he'll be a devastating prospect. He's a Dustin Fletcher with line-breaking ability.

I've been waiting for this. It's actually my biggest MFC footy fear at the moment. We must retain him. He's the only genuine A grade defender I've seen at Melbourne in 25 years. Offer him a four year deal, a five year deal if it'll get him over the line.

Yeah, it appears to be all about ego. I don't think this thread will reveal anything though, DG. However, I will watch it with interest.

He's an arrogant little fella, Seedsman. I used to coach his brother and saw quite a bit of him around the traps. He didn't look that built today, but seems to be doing well though and is not shown up in his contested footy.