Adam The God

Thank you, sir. Had no idea.

Blind 'Freddy' could see that Carlton's recruiting has been rubbish for a long time now. Sheedy should have retired post Essendon. He was finished. Just as Malthouse should have given up the game post Collingwood.

This is an important point too, PSD. I'm always sitting at games going, "know your bloody limitations!". So many of our players bite off more than they can chew. Even Nathan Jones. I think his improvement over the last two years though is the realisation that he has certain limitations. DIspose of the ball as early as possible, rather than being tackled every time you gain possession. Our lack of spread from stoppages hasn't helped him there, but he's certainly a better player for being in touch with his limitations. Tommy Mac needs to realise this, as do Grimes, Terlich and Matt Jones.

I see that we're well behind on clearance numbers, inside 50s and scoring shots. The first two stats are misleading and slanted in our favour because of our short kicking, possession game.

I think our team of 2013 was the worst AFL team of my lifetime (26 years). Hawthorn were rubbish for a very long time too. The 80s was their golden era though. That's where they picked up all their fans from. How do you explain Terlich or Grimes playing then? I think Nicholson is a reasonable VFL player, but Grimes and Terlich are VFL, perhaps even VFA standard.

We haven't lost Frawley yet. Let's not be defeatist. I support Liverpool in the EPL and they could have simply let their best player go over the English summer, but instead they dug their heals in and said no. We don't have the same leverage, given there was a contract still in place, but it says everything about the football club - how easily you roll over. That player is Luis Suarez and he's probably the best player in the world right now. I want the MFC to fight for Frawley. Show we're not a pack of spineless twats.

Except, you'll note all those guys (with the exception of Gawn and McDonald) were high draft picks. I agree that we need to change club culture. I don't think rjay is debating that though. I agree with this. There is also the element of luck in all of this, which I'm sure we all acknowledge. -- I think in order to fast track some of this though, IMO, we'll need to receive PPs, as we require assets to trade and/or recruit. Personally, I think if we draft well over the next two to three years and we start to lay the foundation for cultural change, our list's current core can still achieve success. That is, providing they can overcome the psychological battering they've taken.

I'm inclined to agree, RM, but the one thing that makes me think differently is that it will rain. It'll be a day for the little blokes. I think we can get away with less KPPs. The ball will fall to the deck the majority of the time and we'll have to be clean for once.

Waite is pretty much their Dawes. He just straightens them up structurally. It's a massive call to drop him. Very fishy. And Gartlett - dropping your best small forward for a very likely rainy game - it doesn't make much sense to me. Tanking this early also doesn't make much sense, but who knows?

Let's start by getting him on the ground first.

And at least we're not paying Spencer $1.6 mill.

When were we ever offered that?

I feel like we've been waiting for a line in the sand game for about four or five years. It never comes. We just limply front up and get our arses handed to us. I agree - it would be great to see a few flying the flag.

TU, give us a break. I like your work, but what else have we had to look forward to, in what has been the leanest period in AFL history? I don't lament MFC supporters looking towards the draft. Particularly, when our season is usually shot by Round 2. I'm not so sure 30,000 supporters would have stuck fat across 7 years of rubbish at many of the other AFL clubs. We saw what two lean years did to Essendon. We saw what three lean years did to Carlton. We're a remarkably resilient supporter base and whatever we turn to for solace is completely understandable.

There's not a single MFC supporting kid in the program I coach at. It's just preps, grade 1s, 2s and 3s. But that says it all. A bunch of Hawthorn kids though. I'm convinced that's where tens of thousands of ex-MFC supporters have gone.

We had 9,000ish at a Port Adelaide game at the 'G a few years ago, but I agree.

Not everything.

Spot on, mate. The Blues always clean up against the weak sides and struggle against the good ones. Carlton struggling does provide me with a little bit of solace though.

Because we don't have a forwardline to kick goals or play through. There's just no way we'll be able to kick a winning score against anyone until we get Dawes and/or Hogan back. It's just not going to happen.

The stopping and propping comes from the lack of upfield options though, P. Give us a Dawes or Hogan and you'd see less indecision and quicker ball movement. It really has made it almost impossible for Roos the first three weeks. What can he do? There have been a couple of facets that I think he could have been a little more imaginative with (kick outs being one example), but it really has (pardon the pun) hamstrung our side.

I actually thought he was dominant for a period of about four or five minutes at the start of the last quarter. In that time, surprise, surprise, we hit the lead. The rest of the day he was smashed though. As he was last week and the week before. The answer is no replacements.

Yeah, fair point, mate. I'm sure I could find another gun who doesn't kick many though. It's just fantastic seeing a bloke that consistently cracks 25+ possessions and his efficiency is fantastic. We're coming from a low base. I'm happy with him winning clearances and contested possessions for the moment.

That's rubbish, mate. I love this club. Our football team has been hopeless since 2007, but I won't ever stop supporting and I will go along every week.

Judd doesn't really either. I'm just happy for Tyson to be getting his hands on the ball so often. Once he has some more support and spread from the midfield, I'll expect goals from him.

Vince had 19 touches and was far from our worse. He wasn't great, but he certainly didn't play a shocker. Frawley looked okay as a forward, but the delivery to him was abysmal.