praha

pitiful last line defense by Jetta and co there. Are we tanking?

Brayshaw with 2 lazy albeit soft free kicks.

We are into $2.40 now for the win. Vs a flag fancy. Either punters know something we don't, or there is still an element of trust and belief in this team from punters.

If looking at the ladder in isolation then yes we are playing better than a 17th placed side. However statistically we have seen sharp drops in key areas. i50 conversion, goal accuracy, overall efficiency across the ground. So the upside is that despite seeing such major drops across the board we haven't looked awful of the GC caliber. We have still looked very poor though. Today will be interesting. Of the matches you mentioned only the Crows and Eagles games we ever looked like winning. Even though we only lost by 8 last week we never looked like winning. It was the same vs Brisbane. Further mid-table this year is much better than how we're performing so I'll disagree with you on that. North, Adelaide, Port, Bulldogs have all played much better football. North would be strong favourites against us. Will be very interesting next 5-6 weeks. If you're right and we can stay relatively injury free than 2-3 wins should be the minimum.

Astonished we are paying under $3 for this. Among the shorter odds for non-finals playing finalists this round.

Confident isn't the right word for me personally. I am in two minds. I am *confident* we have a strong core but believe major change still needs to occur. I feel there is an element of complacency for the sake of stability. You can make major change without interrupting said stability. As a club I fear we are now fearful of huge change because of the past. Hopefully last year wasn't our peak. If it wasn't then historical analysis tells us that a similarly sharp spike above and beyond where we were last year is possible. However if it was our peak, then we will stay steadily at the crash point for a few years to come. Huge 8-10 months for Goodwin and co.

Yes, 100%. But I did mention linear growth OR stability. By stability I mean there is margin for drops and they should be expected but they are countered by equal measure growth. We've seen steady linear growth...and a hard crash. Hard crashes are typical of hostile/unstable/uncertain markets or environment. They are extremely rare otherwise and if they do appear otherwise they are typically reflective of low confidence, internal factors or poor decisions. Not always can they be directly measured next to tangible decisions but when they can be it typically means the rare occasion where quick change is applied. The "fail quickly". Organisations will never admit it but this is where you see *important* change that keeps, or reestablishes morale. It is tough in the football world and different to corporate but I would think until round 10 2020 would be equivalent to a financial quarter in the business world.

I'm frustrated, Wise. I have perhaps unrealistically high standards but those standards are a product of a personally successful career. I lose sleep after one week of missing target at work even if we're at 120% of target for the year. I understand the corporate world is different to the football world but I have worked with professional sporting organisations in the past both locally and abroad, and the application, targetting, tracking, celebration and accountability of KPIs is consistent across the most successful organisations. We keep being told these are being applied at MFC but then I see us lingering near last on the ladder. I can't help but get angry. It's in my blood. I know there are many variables that have hurt us this year. The reasonable man in me gives a pass to a degree, but I cannot oversee or forget this. The pass is temporary. I have had many mentors over the years. They are always zen-like in their criticism and delegation, a trait I am still trying to learn, to get people to follow me without the use of fear or threat. It's a unique trait to get people to do that. But the consistent theme amongst them is the complete and utter contempt for failure. That's not to say you, or anyone else here that disagrees with me is accepting of failure. Apologies if I have said otherwise. I was wrong. I will try to be more accepting and rational in my responses. I am very critical and harsh towards failure. I know we all are. But I've been conditioned in such a way where it's very difficult for me to not see consistently linear growth or stability. The crash this year, from a former business analyst's point of view, tells me we are back at square one, and it will be a long way back. and this is the rare occasion where quick change is actually necessary. fail quickly. this is why round 10 2020 is the cutoff.

Yep well you need to be modestly okay to even compete in this league these days, Goff. The AFL in 1999 was still in that transition to full time professionalism, and Daniher was battling the ever-lingering political mudslinging that was the MFC board. Not to mention the lingering stink of salary cap issues, and the loss of Lyon and injuries to White and Viney. Will never forget Modra lighting us up for 10 goals at the MCG and Freo's first ever win there. How distinctively "Melbourne" that night was. Fortunately for that team a lot of the important stats tracked today weren't being tracked in 1999 but I suspect the drop off this year has been far more significant, given we are 17th-18th in some stats that we were 1st-2nd in last year. Daniher was also brutally honest and hurt when the fan hurt. Goodwin appears to shrug a lot off the shoulder. Appears the Crows arrogance is thick within him. Never his fault. Never in the wrong. Always "something else". Actually, he fits in at Melbourne. We are better than that 1999 team. And we are better than 17th. How will 2019 be defined?

It's okay. We're working hard. At least we get pick 2? That's the message around here... Once the round is over though and WC have given us a football lesson, the pressure gauge will turn up on Goodwin. 17th with 5 rounds to go. No where to hide anymore. Let's see what excuses are thrown out now.

It's alright though! We've had injuries, and there's always next year! Besides, pick 2 on the horizon! Look on the bright side! Goodwin is the man! etc etc In all honesty, the further the season progresses, the worse it gets. We're going to finish below Carlton. I don't give a [censored] what the variables are. Or how many injuries we've had. It's abhorrent. It's a [censored] disgrace where we are. Goodwin should be presenting and raising the stakes for his own and the team's KPIs for 2020. He and is football department have utterly destroyed the fabric, albeit thin one, that had been established by Roos and Jackson. I can accept a drop after 5 years of linear growth consider where we were. But where we are now...it's inexcusable. Jones, Gawn, TMac, Lewis should be embarrassed. Leadership onfield has been pathetic. I'm giving Goodwin 16 matches to turn it around. And that's generous considering how much of a [censored] mess this team is in right now.

You might be right but what's eerie is that it all keeps happening. You can't ignore the facts. I mean, it makes me laugh just how much we've dropped off this year. It's unprecedented. Coach killing. And distinctively Melbourne. Some of the stats are mind boggling. I think it just pisses people off that other shrugs their shoulder at a 17th place finish, which seems likely. We absolutely need to be passed that but somehow we find ourselves "Doing a Melbourne" and regressing so badly that it's hard not to make a connection. You say those past events are irrelevant. But history repeats. Culture lingers. I think a lot of you are in denial tbh.

Defensively he is awful. I'd rather him get 3 tackles but take 5 intercept marks, or lay 5 tackles in defensive 50, than lay 5 pointless tackles in congestion on a player who was never getting a clear possession to begin with. IMO Hocking's comments re. tackling this week tie in with the type of tackling game Clarry and Co. produce. No impact on the game. Just a rugby scrum until the ball is knocked loose.

We don't tackle in the first quarter and now you want to introduce a rule to reduce tackling further lol

I think it reflects a gap in maturity skill and leadership as you allude to. The gap between 1-4 teams and 5-8 is fairly big, but even larger 9-12 and 13 below. We don't discount WC and GWS wins, they were well coached and played matches. But even as Goodwin has mentioned we were a young team on a roll. My intent is not to dilute last year's finals as merely a flash in the pan. Rather my intent is to highlight that, to be consistantly good, you need to consistently beat good teams. So it started as a concerning albeit afterthought stat. But this year shows it is a trend.

Everyone calm tf down. An interesting if concerning stat, is all. Collingwood struggled last year against top 8 sides but has shown a trend it is not. We've been consistently poor against top 8 sides during the season. It hurts us. It impacted our ability to snag the double chance last year. How do we fix it? What do we do? Where is it going wrong? Is it a quick fix? Instead of attacking each other for simply posting an opinion, engage and contribute. We're in this together.

The only sides that were top 8 during H&A when we beat them were GWS and WC. In what world are you living in that any half decent side is even remotely relevant without beating good teams?

That is our record against top 8 sides during H&A over the last two seasons. Only one other team hasn't won against a top 8 side this year. I'm sure you can guess which team it is. What do we put this down to? Inexperience? Coaching? Luck (or lack thereof) of the draw? Culture? This is over two years. Not just this year. The more we see, the more reality starts to hit home. What does this club stand for? I've not pondered that question since round 2, 2013. Here we are, six years on.

Salem, Oliver, Jones, and Frost all need to hit the scoreboard. Yes even from the backline. They can all slot it on the front from 50.

Poor coaching, lazy adaptation (or lack thereof) to 6-6-6 rule, dysfunctional leadership, and growing pains for Oliver and Brayshaw, who have both been found out as being extremely one dimensional. Dunkley for the Bulldogs is demonstrating the type of player Oliver *should* be, or become, but Clarry is going through the motions and simply playing the year out atm. His performance is eerily Scully-esque circa 2011. His mind appears elsewhere. Very concerning. Brayshaw seems down on confidence. Mcdonald has attracted No.1 defender with Hogan gone, and so it's been a learning curve for him. Same with Weeds. Garlett, Spargo, ANB have been useless. There goes out forward line. At one point this year our entire back 6 in Salem, Lever, May, Jetta, Lewis and Hibberd were out. This leads to lack of cohesion and connection with the mids due to lack of experience playing together. The variables all point to a pass for Goodwin given all of the above but the entire coaching team's approach has been a symptom of this and I feel Goodwin has been found lacking. It will be a learning curve for him as well. The stats point to a list badly lack depth, but also a coaching team that had not prepared for nor considered the worst. We've blooded some talent in Petty Lockhart Hore Dunkley but these are atm depth players. That Hore was the general in our backline for a few weeks shows how badly hit by injuries we were. Again though, we've maintained a healthy core, continue to win the ball and continue to get the ball forward. Goodwin's defensive coaching prowess is nonexistent it seems and he would be on notice. You don't go from premiership fancy to bottom 2. I don't care how badly hit by injuries you've been. Will be a fascinating next 12 months. Watch this space (if you dare)

History shows that midfield and contested ball dominance almost always equates to wins most of the time. As always, however, Melbourne leads the way in breaking records no one knew existed. We set standards no one else dared set. And we add new meaning to "inefficient". If we were salesmen, it would be like selling 100% of your stock with a return/refund rate of 80%.

Goodwin won't get as long. Richardson has had to battle horrid injury lists and just broadly poor form. But this was always going to happen.

While I am indifferent to OMac, I'm uneasy about dumping a young KPP that has room to grow. ANB is clearly not up to it but if Tmac and Jetta are any indication, then I think we can develop OMac into a solid player. He also showed in patches last year that he can be a very good player. At times he was even being lauded as a potential AA backman. The club has also indicated that they're developing him to build his strength. He's unlikely to go imo. At the end of the day he's a key defensive player with finals experience, that managed a few scalps towards the end of last year. He has always been a scapegoat for our troubles but any poor performance from him is typically a symptom of rather than a catalyst of our issues.

It was a shocking decision. Yet oh so predictable. Dare i say it was a distinctively Melbourne moment.

maybe. on the flipside we made a prelim last year. so either our list over performed or our FD and coaching team over performed. if the latter then Goodwin should and probably is under internal pressure. If the former then a rebuild is necessary. Some here seem to think nothing is wrong: we don't need a rebuild nor is anything wrong in the coaches box. Mind you we are staring down the barrel of finishing 17th. Five years after we last finished equal 18th in 2014, Roos' first year. There are a lot of perpetual negativity nancies on this forum. But many of them are right. Good clubs have the occasional down year. Poor clubs flat out bottom out. Nothing has changed. Consider our list turnover in coming years: Lewis Jones ANB Hibberd Jetta OMac JKH Garlett AVB Hannan Potentially Brayshaw Either retired, traded, or delisted. Or on the decline (Jetta and Hibberd). We have very little depth upside. Dunkley, Lockhart, Petty have potential. But they so depressingly remind me of fillers from the Roos years. I can't fathom how anyone doesn't think we need a genuine rebuild and restructuring. It's like it's a dirty word. We need to be quick and harsh. Otherwise we're going to end up back where we were in 2012. Make a decision on Jones. Choose between Viney or Brayshaw. Now is the time.