IvanBartul13

6. Lynden Dunn 5. Cam Pedersen 4. Daniel Cross 3. Neville Jetta 2. Dom Tyson 1. Bernard Vince

6. Nathan Jones 5. Dom Tyson 4. Jeremy Howe 3. Jack Viney 2. Bernard Vince 1. Cam Pedersen

Thoughts on his kicking?

On what basis? I'm not discounting the possibility, but other than size, second effort and aggression (oft-misplaced) what does he bring to the table? He can't take a mark, doesn't have a football brain and gives away too many unnecessary free kicks. As I've stated in other posts, he is statistically the worst first ruckman in the competition, so please enlighten as to what he brings to the table?

I still can't see the fascination with Grundy - and never have.

One of the things that has hurt Jordie is that there seems to have been a movement in thinking in how to use him. Whereas before he was playing as inside mid/tagger, Neeld changed his role to a tagging wingman, shutting down players like Steele Sidebottom for example and now Roos seems to favour using better overall players like Grimes and Jones in more accountable head to head rather than sacrificial tagging sort of roles. Unfortunately for McKenzie, Cross is an extremely effective outside run-with player and has taken his spot. Had he not been playing im sure McKenzie would have been in and playing on Macrae. Comparing McKenzie and Magner and Valenti is like comparing apples and oranges. Magner and Valenti are ball hunting feeders, McKenzie is a negator. Magner and Valenit are mediocre at their craft, McKenzie is quite good at his when given the chance. Like a lot of stoppers he is let down by skill deficiency, which is usually the reason taggers are given those roles.

Dean Kent's limited pre-season has gifted Byrnes' games. There is absoutely no chance he will be on the list next year, will either retire or be pushed into doing so.

My view of Pedersen was that he was an outstanding VFL player and i wasn't able to comprehend how poor he was for us last year. He's been a good contributor this year but I'd be very surprised if he was in the top 4 of the B+F ahead of N.Jones, Cross, Tyson, Vince, Grimes, McDonald, Dunn and Frawley and Matt Jones may be shading him as well. What we are going to see - and it's a a great thing - is that soon players that deserve games are going to miss out. The reality for Pedersen is that he either plays as an undersized backup ruck or hes competing with Howe and Watts for a spot in the side as a tall utility. If they want to have Gawn as a better rucking backup then Pedersen will probably miss out on team balance because he is down the pecking order for ability. Personally, I think he would make a very good sub.

Clisby stripped and warming up in the pink game socks so still chance for a late change I'd say

6. Chris Dawes - set the tone, worked his heart out and kicked the telling goals when they needed to be kicked. After this very difficult probably a muddle of five or six players who could be anywhere from 5 to 1. 5. Bernie Vince - not confident he deserves to be this high, but thought he was our main midfield driving force at the stoppages. 4. Jay Kennedy-Harris - probably the best crumbing forward game by a Demon since Jeff Farmer. Endless supply of clever traps and gives. 3. Dom Tyson - just a class act and won a heap of the footy again and used it smartly. 2. Jack Viney - hard and tough, bled for the jumper and with Vince, terrific at the stoppages. 1. Jeremy Howe - answered his critics with a stylish game across half-back, his best for a long time. Jetta and Jamar frighteningly stiff.

Tyson needs some quick class around him to capitalise on his quick hands and brain.

Thats not correct Egan's foot fractured in a marking contest, similar to Mitch Clark, he never played again after the incident and missed the GF. It was a horrific foot break and he had screws inserted that night Croad went off and never reappeared after breaking his foot im pretty sure as well. Different types of injuries it would seem to Trenners, which seems to be a overuse injury rather than the collision type.

Maybe i will, but one reason he is being thrown in the ruck is because he stands 202cm and weighs in at 103kg and is already physically able to compete in the ruck at a young age, which along with a good second effort seem his only real attributes. I was offering no comparison to our ruck stocks. Just commenting that he is hyped in the media and many people seem to think he is the second coming of Simon Madden when in fact his stats say that this year he is the worst performed first ruckman in the competion to date and last year he was reasonably performed but no star. I suppose im wondering, aside from his imposing physical credentials and pompom hairstyle, what is so good about him? He rarely wins more hitouts than his opponent, has kicked 1 goal in 11 games and has committed 36 clangers and taken only 23 marks. Where he seems to be very good is as a tackler post ruckwork. Again, not saying he will not be good, but dont see why he is so acclaimed at the moment and i would be very surprised if Witts doesnt supplant him in the upcoming weeks,

He is overhyped by the media, not me, and statistically and to my eye, at least, he is performing at a mediocre level, breaking even at best with a superb midfield underneath him. Not saying he is not useful and not saying he won't become a fine ruckman, just that he is overrated versus his output. Would also add Jimmy Toumpas gets a very raw deal in terms of the criticism he receives and the comparisons he is set to, off a small sample size of 15 or so games.

More suggesting that he is overhyped because he is a very mediocre player at the moment, not that he isn'T promising. Versus Richmond the commentators - harley, commetti, mcavaney - on at least a half dozen occasions mentioned how a great a player he was and he did barely anything the other night. At this stage he is a big young kid who competes pretty well in the ruck and puts in some good second efforts at ground level and does very little else. The fact he has three superstar midfielders helps him. When he was subbed out, i assume because Witts outperformed him and they added a runner, commentators were saying they were resting him which i dont think was true.

Brodie Grundy is another - gets talked about like hes the second coming of Simon Madden but is the second worst number 1 ruckman statistically (Champion Data) and the worst per ground time in the compatition and cant take a mark to save his life. Been thrashed by three opponents so far with one draw and was subbed out last game and outplayed by his number 2, Witts.

What do you mean? He was emormous in the first half and quietish second half

Never really noticed before but Dawes is an incredibly cerebral and team oriented footballer. His little tap to Bail everyone will remember, but he is so clever at creating space, running angles to block for team-mates and to open pathways for runners to pick up lose footy. Just a very smar footy brain.

Could find the original post but anyone saying grimes had a poor first half is wildly wrong in my opinion - was enormous!

6. N.Jones 5. T.McDonald 4. J.Frawley 3. J.Grimes 2. D.Cross 1. M.Jones

Interesting. Early on at the Eagles, there were suggestions he interfered too much/tried to have too much input into what position Mitch played, how he trained et cetera and it had a negative effect on his football. Could be apocryphal though.

Its worth noting none of the Mortons developed. Mitch was as highly rated as Cale when he started out and Jarryd went nowhere. Their dad was a problematic figure from all reports. That draft did kill us. We would have taken Redden at 35.

Its pointless including players taken before our picks. A better exercise would be to include the best plater taken within 5 picks our our top 10 picks and within 10 of all other picks as a guide to the the quality of the drafting. Hindsight can be cruel mistress. In 2003 for example, David Mundy was predominantly a key or third tall back with good kicking ability. He was never in the frame for a top 5 pick on the basis of need. In reality Brent Stanton was the only possibly realistic better pick that could have been made that year. And we didnt have a pick 21 that year.

Losing Scully was not our doing and it was a good selection, so his market value when he jumped ship dictates. Nor was it our fault we were selecting at 12 in 2010 and not at 5 in an already compromised draft. Getting access to the 24th best player of his vintage is hardly fair for a team finishing 13th. Many mistakes, some poor decision making but the club has been certainly unlucky in many ways and a victime of poor timing.

2010 was a reasonable draft overall. Howe and Mcdonald have performed to first round level of that draft year. Nicholson and Evans were the rookies that year, not Mckenzie and spencer