Nasher

The biggest problem I have with your argument fatty is that you're not providing evidence as backup. Stuff like winning premierships (as you have suggested), and the vague opinions on others (as robbo24 suggested) are not valid KPIs for a recruiter. I think the point most here are getting at is this, and I've probably been even less clear than the others : A fair analysis of a recruiter is comparing him against other recruiters, taking in to consideration the resources available. An unfair analysis is comparing him against nebulous ideas such as premierships and public opinion.

I have no idea who Ray Nilsson is.

hehe Your point is still valid though. I'd be surprised if Martin was ready within the next two years, senior list or not.

I think the moral of the story is to stop giving these numbers to duds if we want to see them on the field.

Martin's on the senior list.

I think you have quoted DD badly out of context there.

Sylvia has been on our list for almost exactly half as long as TJ was before he finally won a B&F.

If you look at Schtacker's list, skimming the top player off each of the sub-lists (besides the most recent one) would be a good start. From Wheatley down, they're the ones who are most likely to have the "why is your output so low?" question asked. I also believe guys like Whelan and Moloney are only one season dogged with injury away from the axe.

Robertson was ages ago. The likes of Davey and Pearce don't slip through the cracks anymore.

If he had the fire in the belly in the first place he'd still be playing regular footy for West Coast, or at worst, turned up to our pre-season training in half reasonable nick. I reckon he's finished as an AFL footballer now.

It doesn't make a mockery of the draft camp. It doesn't matter how good your skills are, if you don't have any athletic traits then you won't get drafted. It's still vital that you have the correct physical attributes to play, and that recruiters have a way of screening players for those attributes. That's what the draft camp is all about, it's not for seeing who will make the best players. So skills aren't everything (otherwise senior position 40 on our list would read A.Sampi not S.Martin), but they are a vital ingredient. It's why players like Ward and Godfrey are no longer on our list despite relatively good seasons.

Chopper?

Here's my updated entry: 3. Morton 10. Martin 16. Grimes 25. McNamara 26. Meesen 30. Cheney 33. Maric 35. Spencer 38. Valenti 39. Zomer 42. Wonaeamirri Bode to retain #43 contrary to my original post.

BUMP New player names added. Guess away!

Why would he be?

I just refreshed the live Rookie Draft list on the AFL website and it became the PSD list Nice one guys.

Pick 19: A Wonaeamirri, St Mary's. Okies.

Spot on Benno.

What a load. He said nothing of the sort. Creative interpretation indeed. His point was that we have disadvantages that other clubs don't have and the AFL compensates us for it, but that other clubs get similar compensation for other things. Would you prefer it if these inbalances weren't equalized? Hint: no you wouldn't, because the club would go belly up. His comments have absolutely nothing to do with whinging or surrendering. He is just trying to inform people of the accurate state of play.

Thanks Alpha. I'd be interested to learn Essendon's motives for coming out of the ND with two PSD picks. Seems a bit odd to me.

CAC is not irreplaceable in the long term, but in the short term his experience in the top job IS irreplaceable, and I guess that's DD's concern. Initially I had the same concern, but like you I no longer share it.

FWIW Dappa I reckon you're all worked up over nothing re: whether or not we could afford to keep him. Just from snippets I've heard here and there, I'm pretty certain the club threw everything including the kitchen sink at him to keep him. I don't know what his reasons for leaving actually were, but I'm 99.9% confident it wasn't money -- at least, it wasn't money on the club's part. Richmond will not be paying above market value for him, and I know for a fact that the current administration takes FD resources very seriously. I think the "big ifs" you're basing your argument on did not come to fruition.

That's the best advice I have ever read on this forum. I personally find that if I take a few minutes to "digest" a post before responding it makes immeasurable difference to quality of my response.

By the logic of many here, I'd say don't bother because those guys haven't won flags either

I agree that people are entitled to their opinions, which is why, with my moderator hat on, I left all the posts intact despite the fact that I vehemently disagree with their contents. I'm also bitterly disappointed that we've lost him; for many reasons. It irks me just as much as anyone that we've not had a champion in the last 25 years -- I'm 24 and too young to remember Flower, so I've never even seen one in red and blue colours! I don't see what that's got to do with this though. With all that said, I don't think disappointment or even anger justifies some of the character slurs some people are spewing forth. It all boils down to this one point, the man is doing what he thinks is best for himself, and I can't see any possible justification for not allowing him that. He's been in the one job at the same employer for 11 years , that's a long time by anyone's measure, and actually shows great loyalty rather than disloyalty. He does not owe this footy club, or any of its supporters, anything at all. If you ask me, we owe him.