Dappa Dan

1) Not bad. I loved seeing the team sing the song on the Freo game. Making the fans feel more involved would be a great way to gain, and more importantly maintain, support from members. 2) I like this one. Doesn't cost anyone anthing. The player gets paid, the fan is happy, the club gets money... win, win, win. 3) It's a good idea, but no. The preseason cannot be interrupted for any reason. We ask a lot of the players already, and that's one period that I'd like to see them left to their own devices. 4) Sure. But how many people will actually get involved? It's not like we have the Brucey Doulls that are so distinct... Maybe Jim Stynes with a cap, or Gar Lyon with a lot of faux-hair... And post of the week goes to Mr angryfijian...

God I hate Hutchy. Take himself so seriously.

:D I'm hoping Newton plays. He's the biggest pre-occupation for me on these boards and as a concerned fan. Petterd is another big one, but he's slowly coming back and will certainly be in line for the last 6 rounds... But Newton is so important to our future in the sense that he fills a BIG hole, at least partially. If he's no good I want them to decide ASAP.

Looking at the Herald Sun article, this is the first time I've really seriously seen White as a trade option. What was it Bailey said "He's out of contract at the end of the year and we'll wait until then to decide what's right for Jeff and what's right for the footy club." Which in coach-talk is as close as anyone ever gets to saying they;re looking to trade a player. Looking at teams like Port (Lade), Swans (Everitt), even Adelaide could use a ruckman that has a good reputation... And recent years have seen older ruckmen play solid roles in sides that are pushing for a flag... Maybe even the Saints, if they didn't already have King on his last legs and were they more of a serious premiership threat. I reckon Jeff is a great demon player who like Bruce and Green should be able to decide. If they want to stay the club can make a deal, if they want to go somewhere where they can spend their last year or so in reach of a flag, then they should be given that opportunity. Bailey has already suggested he wants kids, kids and more kids. It would be sad to see him go, be it retirement, delisting OR a trade... but at least the third option is beneficial for all. *edit*... On further reflection, assuming Naita is coming to the club, I can't think of a better mentor than a player who adapted his high-leap and played good footy for the latter half of his career... So with that in mind I'm hopping back into the nice little indentation I've made for myself on the fence...

WHOA! [censored]. I have to go and completely redo my supercoach and dream team side now. Valenti off the bench, And White gone? This is a dramatic shift...

What happened to that guy? He used to be hysterical! Now he trots out the same three gags, and it' gotten to the point where when he somehow wrestles the focus off one of the other panel members, you cringe just as he gets to the punchline. Either he's just not funny and people laugh politely, or they kind of make a mass groan because he's made a joke in poor taste. Bring back Heliar, or Rove... or ANYONE.

I thought maybe Biscuit was actually his nickname? And when they were asking him about the club I reckon he did well! Wasn't it just part of his schtick? Acting dumb? He didn't get any questions wrong.... I always disliked him before, but even just coming on and answering a few questions they showed better comic timing, wit and originality than Sam, Trev and the others have shown the whole year combined.

Yeah... They may be just picking on the dees. We're bottom placed so the comedians, like Trev on TFS find us easiest to pick on.

We won't get him, and we shouldn't of course... But I still get excited about the idea of the club's kids seeing what it takes to train that way. Not NEARLY a good enough reason of course... But we can fantasise.

Says the guy who's approaching 5000 POSTS of the same pessimistic tripe he's always regurgitated from whatever hack Herald Sun journalist has gotten the back page article that week... "Oooh the Saints need pace!" Footy is footy RR... It hasn't changed as much as the sensationalists would have you believe. Yep. I'd take that in a second. I love Davey as much as the next guy, but he's got question marks that have never been answered even though he's now of a prime age. Good player, but we are in DIRE need of a Watts/Rich/Hurley that would go pick 2-4... Shame it would NEVER happen. How about that RR? 5000 posts and I can't remember the last time anyone agreed with you, or you agreed with anyone else... Don't forget you're the only one who doesn't have to READ what you post. I envy you...

That bench hurts. I want to see all 7 play... In a perfect world, Morton, Valenti, Buckley and Bode... We'd lose but the fans would get to see some new stuff... PUMPED that Martin is going to debut though. I can't believe they named him in the 18. I reckon Carroll will definitely come in to play on Bradshaw (YIKES!) or more likely Brown. Valenti straight swap for JMac. One of Jamar and White will play and I hope one of Morton and Buckley... I'm putting my money (if there was a market for it) on Morton, Bode and Jamar being the emergencies.

Good stuff Himark... I'm going to have an even closer look at the Bateatron now, if that were possible. I don't trust many of our players when the ball goes near them, or when they are required to show some polish, but Bate fills me with confidence. My criticisms are very small things indeed, and his strengths as a player completely outweigh his weaknesses. When I said he has no leap, I meant that he doesn't get much air-time in the packs... But as you said, the fact he keeps his feet is a strength in itself. Look at Robbo :S Bate somehow comes up with the ball even though he doesn't fly, so the end result is the same. Here's one thing to think about... When was the last time he put together 2 horrible games in a row? I think early last year he might have frustrated a bit... but since then whenever he's done something to [censored] off demonlanders, he'll inevitably come out the week after and kick 3 goals, take 12 marks, get 20 touches.... So whenever I see him play a bad one, I look forward to seeing him the following week as he so often has come out and had a blinder. How many MFC players can boast that?

CJ, Weetra, Jamar, Newton and Zomer... But seriously... Green has done enough to be at least considered for Captain... But it'll probably be Bruce. My preference? McDonald © - Burns has done it at the Pies at a late stage in his career, I don't see why JMac can't. He's more than earned it and it would be a great way to end his career, going out on 250+ games as the club's captain. Probably won't happen, but I can dream. McLean - I think after his comments on SEN today he may have been told to cool his heels for a year or two, an given his indiscretions I reckon it's fair enough that he be made to wait a year or two. Green - If he did an 8 week injury tomorrow, he's still ESILY done enough to earn a place in the group. Miller - Is starting to lead on field now... The cupboard is a bit bare on our list, and he's as likely a candidate as anyone. Bruce - He doesn't inspire ME as a leader, but then I don't play for the club. The VC position could go to any of that group except perhaps Miller. McLean keeps getting talked about as a future leader, and VC would perhaps be seen as an education. Green has earned the Vice captaincy, and Bruce is still one of the more serious players on the list. I could easily see a 6th spot coming in, and would love it to go to any of the following: Davey - Is of the right age, but isn't consistent enough both with his footy, and with injury. Jones - If he wasn't as young as he is he'd be in there already. PJ - Won't happen, but given we have no FF these days he's the closest thing we have to a big, scary presence up that end of the ground. I think in his late 20s he'll become a force in the AFL... maybe not a Fevola-like force, but he'll be a good player. Hence the idea of having him in the leadership group. Wheatley - Loving his footy at the moment. He's the most unlikely personality to lead, but on-field he's something of a general. Given our list's weaknesses, he's actually one of our best players!... On further reflection, it says something about our leaders that I have included Wheatley at all... White - He's never been much of a leader... And his footy isn't inspiring anyone. But the guy is a B&F winner, a professional in every sense, came closeish to a brownlow... Why isn't he ever spoken about?

Don't think so... Neitz is still on the injury list... Robbo could be added. Valenti and Wonna can stay. Unless I missed something in between...

HA! I'm stunned by the flawless logic... "You don't get it." The last time someone proved me wrong with that logic, I was 7 and he was 8 and we were fighting over lego. Rhino, mate... More people on here "get" things than you like to believe. Here's the part you can't grasp... NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU!!!! In fact, I think most don't. Get that.

Jesus you carry on RR... Most, if not ALL of what you write is simple exposition of opinion, yet you masquerade as though you have a greater reading of the game and its finer points and a finer understanding ONLY because you can string a few words together. A good education does not make one smart... I would say probably less than 50% of what you write holds any water with me... Sorry, it's not. Again, a classic. You have an opinion that something is or isn't the case, then say "In my opinion." Don't say "sorry" at me like I'm a pre-schooler. I'll say it again. There ARE players that have come back from OP and played solid football... Say it with me now Rhino... NOT a career KILLER! a VALUE diminisher. In my opinion... See? Not that hard. Ummmmm. Yes... and then No. Trades almost never happen... I reckon about 2% of the trade discussion actually bears fruit (not including the ones pre-arranged a la Acker). With that in mind, what we're doing here is talking about whether or not players have value as an offer... If you seriously think Rivers has no value, then I can't see how you expect to be taken seriously on these forums... You're like the anti-Y_M... Instead of ridiculously positive comments, you have ridiculously NEGATIVE comments... Firstly he's rarely played ON a player. His best footy is as the third tall, drifting back in defence. In the situations he HAS played on a player it's been the slowest tall... And even when it isn't, he's played on the likes of Riewoldt and won. Are you sure we're talking about the same player? Besides... He would be traded AS a Harley-type defender, not as a KP matchup option. Secondly, see the point made firstly. Thirdly? This one holds some water. But only some. Rivers was always slow, and it never hurt him. The history of the game is littered with slow players who had the BRAINS to be able to work around their shortcomings. Harvey is still cracking 30 possessions and he's always been slowish. Yes the need for pace is dire, but not EVERY guy on the list has to be pacey. Warnock, Garland AND Frawley all have a bit of toe in them... but personally I reckon what we are missing is PRECISELY what Rivers offers. Someone who drifts into the hole and offers assistance when spoiling... which, shock horror, is what he's ALWAYS done... You watch Geelong's defence and that's what makes them so impenetrable. Really? Are you sure? [censored]... Thank God you're here to tell us these things RR... Don't talk at me like I've posted 15 times on this site. I am AWAAAAARE of what OP does to a player, and as far as I'm concerned Rivers is still easily in our best 6 players WHEN fit, AFTER OP... hell, even WITH OP. He played one of the BEST 6 possession games you'll ever see against Fremantle and was a presence in one of the finest and unlikeliest wins I've ever seen. My eyes are open, stop insisting I'm seeing something that only the "grand Rhino Richards" is capable of divining. Limited up back? Jesus you are Rich. When was he ever LIMITED! Just because he's not enormous, and just because he's not Matty Scarlett he's "limited?" He won the Rising star FFS! Over Aaron Davey! He's played more than one gun season, and only mug, one-eyed opposition supporters (and you, evidently) doubt his credentials. Oh alright then... I considered it superfluous... but since that escaped you, here you go. Prepare yourself now... Rivers is a good player. The Saints have Maguire who is falling to bits, and Fisher... then it's Hudgton who's getting on a bit. How much simpler can I make it? They're not looking for someone to play in the midfield, they're looking for a PROVEN, YOUNG, tall defender. They want pace? They can recruit a flanker. Or better yet, get a midfielder... And if YOU think that just because a club has had a star player go down with OP that they're going to be made "gunshy" then you're not the Rhino I know. The club will make a simple medical assessment... JUST like they would have already done with Kosi... which brings me to my next point. No [censored]. Really? Try this on for size. I disagree.... Actually... NO... Let's try it your way. YOU'RE WRONG. Rivers is a decorated young player. His strengths outweigh whatever "weaknesses" the armchair experts claim to see... (that the professionals have never mentioned, it may surprise you to find out) I wish you'd stop being a sanctimonious twit. We'd want a 1st rounder for Rivers. Neither am I. I never said he would. I said that given BOTH players have injury concerns... (and yes Rhino before you chime in and "inform" me that one has OP and the other has had many concussions and a knee, I am aware of their histories)... It may work out well for both parties to do a straight swap. You ARE a fool. Yeeees Rhino... I heard you the first 18 times. You know what I think you need? You need to say "Mr Speaker" before ever sentence. You sound just like a whining politician... Here's the guts of it mate. St. Kilda ARE slow. So are we. Kosi IS slow. So is Rivers.... Kosi is a FF... Given Gehrig is on the way out I doubt he'll go, but given his frustrating history, it's quite common for clubs to move a player who may need a change of atmosphere, to alleviate some of the perceived pressures. Rivers is a 3rd tall... Currently successful clubs use them, Rhino... Harley is a perfect example. And you know what? If they bring in a guy that could very well overcome his OP and go on to play EXACTLY as well as he has in his best years, they would go a long way to stopping the leaking that's going on down there. And as for Ball... Do you seriously reckon they think like that? That CAN'T be true that you do... They don't look at their list and think "oooh, we've got too many players with OP." They look on it as a case-by-case basis... If Rivers looks as hough he can overcome it, then he's attractive to clubs. Simple... When he comes back and starts playing well again... probably at MFC because hardly any interesting trades ever really happen... I would LOVE an apology for the tone you've used, and would enjoy seeing you say you were wrong... which somehow NEVER happens. Could it be you are ALWAYS right? No.

That's interesting. I look at the dogs, even from when Wallet had them, and I see the way footy is going... people saying power forwards are a dying breed and all that... and perhaps in 10 years Bate will be the forward-type everyone wants. Mybe there won't be any more slow players... just fast little guys, and even faster big guys... Who knows? Bate could be the kind of player that only feels more at home as time passes... He has a big motor I reckon. I just reckon he has next-to-no leap. And that's ok. Hopefully it'll be the reason they leave him out of the forward fifty and place Sylvia, Miller and others there.

Stynes, but only just, and only on stats... Do love White and think he's very under-rated by the media and the greater-football public.

Holland.... no... Green all the way.

Yeah. By the same token I think there's been a couple of times when he's been forced, because of flooding, to have a shot and he hasn't backed himself. On these occassions he trots in from way out, winds up and runs into the man on the mark, or sprays it horribly. I don't mean this as any ind of disrespect. Nathan Brown is verging on being a star, and without his leg probably would be... He's widely regarded as not being able to crack 50 metres. Undeniably accurate, just not great in terms of distance.

I'd be interested to know how many haven't made the distance. I had someone take me to task about how he's not a very long kick, and that it's easier to be more accurate if you ALWAYS look to dish off, unless it's within 40 metres.

Future CHF? Of sorts... I don't think the "Big Red Pav" is a fair title. His leads, marks one-on-one (even when closely marked), pace and kicking distance and accuracy (on the run) are all prodigious. But I hate him in packs and in the air. The big J. Brown/Fevalenko pack marks are not something he'll ever perfect. That said, you look at players like Cloke... And he's a better player than that. He is one of the first picked in the side I'd wager, and will remain that way for a good 8 or so more years.

Wasn't it Y_M who proposed him as a CHF? I know apparently Cale came out early on and said he'd like to play there. At first I dismissed it, but the longer I go the more I reckon with some size he could make a fist of it. Would need to be Murphy like with his engine, mark and kick... but he has the bear bones.... if not the flesh on top of them! Honestly though? Probably will be the player we look to to fill in the gaps... floating around half-back rebounding... On the wing running like a nutter... Playing a Matty Bate-type role... I reckon the only place we WON'T see him play is deep at either end. But hey, even there, you may see him drift deep towards the end of his career.

Yeah... He's no Robert Walls with the annoyingly bad calls, but he does say some silly things... But I can't hate him. He defends us at every opportunity, despite not having much to get excited about at MFC. And most of all he's worked out the magic formula to being a successful media personality/ex footballer: It's a game, and there is almost no aspect of footy that you CAN'T approach with a sense of humour. Newman and Kekovich have made a pretty penny by realising this fact...

Probably not the most serious of the big cases he's had to face... But this is an excellent case of Karma coming back to bite him. Now... If he defends it and gets off there'll be hell to pay.