PJ_12345

I've stuck to the facts and quotes. You said the club has performed horrible over the past 7 years. I agree, but reminded you of the length of different chances at various levels throughout the MFC over that period and that over the past 7 years we had been in a final. You then conveniently cut that period down to 6 years and mentioned MN's strategy, and how it might be wrong. I said, how can we know its wrong and write if off before we give it a chance to mature. I then said facetiously "But I guess people like you would rather expect us to be in finals right now, and if you not in finals in two years YOURE GONE.." because what do the past 6 years you keep talking about, and the people you want to axe have in common? We have never made finals You're doing alot of talking about performance, percentages, games and losses for someone who has "never talked about winning games". I'm honestly surprised this argument has gone past the point where you tried to blame the current MFC board and coaches for the past 6 years at the very start. It's clear, you want the MFC gone from the top down. That's fine. But don't bend your argument beyond recognition, focus on a facetious statement and avoid my main argument: Maybe its worth a go at giving someone a chance at a long-term strategy, rather than judging them on short-term results and axing them which is what we have done for the past 6 years

Lol so let me get this right: no one can reply to a post on DL if it's not directed at them? Bit hypocritical considering this started because you replied to a conversation between Satyriconhome and Macca. Also Satyriconhome had already answered your post. "Secondly, you have quoted a number of things that I have not said." - yes, yes you did say them: I also said: "You are all so narrow-minded... You will all say for the MFC to draft Toumpas, but then say we made the wrong choice we should have got Wines after 3 games" I didnt say that you said that you specifically said that about Toumpas - I was saying supporters were... hence by my "all"... which people have been saying. Ease up on the aggression. Its making you and your arguments look pretty childish.

No, you said: "The losses do matter. We have a percentage of 35. How embarrassing is that?" "the facts are the facts" "After the 1st game I laid the blame at everyone in our club" "This is almost certainly going to be our 7th poor season in a row" "You only have to look at how the team is or has been playing for proof positive. It's right before our eyes." "we have a history of performing poorly. Especially in the last 6+ years" Gee wiz - a lot of talking about performance, percentages and games Do you stand by these comments too?

Fair point. But remember in: 2007 we lost our first 9 games 2008 we lost our first 6 games and then another consecutive 7 games We won only a couple of games over 11 rounds in 2011 We have continued to cut our losses but we always wind up in the same spot. The only thing that has gone to plan is that we are debt free, but hey people are calling for the board & Don to step down. We keep axing and nothing changes - how about we see a coach's plan mature for once and see how that goes.

"I'd like to know what gives you the confidence to beleive that we are on the right track. At this stage, I think you are putting blind faith in a number of people at the club" - No one has put blind faith into anything. We all knew what we were buying into. It was a long-term strategy. "But again, that's your decision" - its the decision the majority of us made, including you when you supported him. "I have long said that Neeld has the potential of being the next Melbourne premiership coach, or the last coach of the Melbourne FC, I just didn't know which way it would go, but hoped like hell that it was the former." - So MN is being written-off after two years. Last time we did that we ended up in the exact same position All this deja vu and broken records are getting boring. I dont know why anyone would bother coaching at this club or having anything to do with it. You are all so narrow-minded. You will elect someone for a long-term strategy to pull us out of this crap but only give him two seasons. You will all say for the MFC to draft Toumpas, but then say we made the wrong choice we should have got Wines after 3 games. Fickle are the supporters of the MFC... or hopefully just the minority

I think you're having an identity crisis. So you don't mind if we don't make finals within two years, BUT we have been under-performing over the past 6 seasons so everyone has to go... even though most of them have gone... BUT that doesn't matter - someone tell Paul Gardner he is being axed for under-performing!

I'd be stoked if Watts was given a full game on the wing

I bought in because I, like the majority of people on DL, said we should elect him. Hell our long-term strategy may be wrong, but no use saying it might be wrong when you haven't even given it a fair chance to succeed! Doomed from the start Short-term results aren't as important to me because compared to seeing us not have to go through this crap again. But I guess people like you would rather expect us to be in finals right now, and if you not in finals in two years YOURE GONE... deja vu

Haha heaven forbid lol. I think we all need to be a little bit more accountable - we bought into MN's long-term strategy when we all said we should appoint him. Time to uphold our promise and give him time to let it mature.

Great to know you would sacrifice long-term strategy over short-term results... feeling alot like deja vu

Macca yo udo realise that over these 7 seasons: There have been 2 boards 4 Presidents 3 Coaches 5 captains New coaching staff (including recruiting ect) I'd be surprised if anyone has been with the MFC for more than 7 seasons So maca, when does this end? We have consistently had new management, yet consistently played poorly. Maybe its time to buy into a long-term strategy and give it enough time to develop instead of going axe crazy 2 seasons in... like last time...

Not making excuses. Ive said multiple times I think the players are lazy, over paid considering their performance, and only NJ would be in another team's 22. BUT that does not excuse being narrow minded and belligerent. Dermie's story leaves alot of holes: for all we know the players could have been in the baths. Ps, 7 years ago we were in the top 8...

Not being naive - me mentioned that the Storm players were walking to the ice baths and they were in the spas. The MFC players could have already have hopped in them, who knows, but it was more that they were being unprofessional... by laughing and being in the baths... and that that wouldnt happen at Storm who are the best in the NRL

Some Storm players walked past a large group of MFC players in the spas, relaxing and laughing at AAMI park - instead of in the ice baths like the Storm players were Dermie put it down to a lack of leadership caused by electing captains that are too young which caused a separation between them and players whom had played more games than them.

And quick.I couldnt believe how quick their mid was when they played the Saints. With Patton out (poor kid, ACLs are tough to bounce back when your that tall), that sholuld help a bit

Lol this is a joke right? Give Morton another 2 years?! <--- he had since 2008 to show something If it doesnt work out then trade them off for a decent draft pick?! <--- we did, for example Morton we got pick 88... lucky to get anything Also Im glad you skipped over some of their worse drafting moments... Ie picking Tambling over Franklin

Travis Johnstone played twice as many and was twice as lazy.., We have relied on the Russian too much for too long. Give him a break, let him recover - he has taken an absolute bashing over the past three weeks

Kettle calling the pot black?

Keep calm and carry on

What I feel like saying to Watts RE his confidence issues:

Hypocrite

Alot of people here are talking about culture. Having studied this at uni I've dug op some of my old books on organisational culture incase anyone wants to know about it: ORGANISATIONAL CULTURE Organisational culture is defined as the system of shared beliefs and values that develop within an organisation and guides the behaviour of its members and abilitiy to achieve organisational goals. This is can be analysised through three levels: 1) Observable culture/Artefacts - the behavioural patterns that a group displays and teaches to new members. These are easily definable and include elements such as language, buildings (The MCG as our home ground), the blazers we now wear, B&F and Foundation Heros ceromonies 2) Shared values and beliefs - the set of coherent values held by members of the organisation and that link them together. These are less obvious elements but mainly revolve around "how we do things around here" and our slogan "First and Forever" 3) Common assumptions - the collection of truths that organisational members share as a result of their joint experiences and that guide values and behaviours (deep/hidden aspects of organisational culture). Can be created from consecutive losses and why Sorrento is a great idea. There are two minority cultures: 1) Subcultures - unique patterns of values and philosophies within a group that are not consistent with the dominate culture of the larger organisation. This could include older players views/values 2) Countercultures - the patterns of values and philosophies that outwardly reject those of the larger organisation. These include disgrunted players, staff, senior players being stripped of leadership roles ect. For strategies to be enabled and acted culture needs to be able to faciliate it, and likewise strategies need to reflect the organisation's culture. Personally I found there was alot of conflict when looking at the MFC. Ideas such as the blazers, whilst the romantic in me liked them, presented counterculture values. We had a young list, new coach, new staff, relatively new board, new captains, new leadership group - then heritage blazers and values. This also goes with our motto: "First and Forever". Whilst its important to remember foundation values, I believe this can be drawn on later... when we have actually won something or gotten into finals. No time to be nostalgic when youre at the bottom when you havent earnt anything. Also alot of people are saying culture can only be changed from the top down. This is wrong. Culture can be changed a number of ways and is always changing. Top down is only applicable when culture is systematically wrong. Ps, I forgot to mention the supporters. AFL clubs are different to most firms/organisations because of their supporters. Whilst most organisations have stakeholders or shareholders, AFL members operate similar in that they donate money, and have a say, but also they bare a large brunt of the developing, changing and facilitating culture.

Too recent. I'd like someone who can come in without having gone through all the bs over the past few years and might possibly have bias or baggage. It's tough pickings but I'd rather not bring someone in unless they fit the memo for the sake of bringing someone in. Possibly someone from another club?