Ron Burgundy

This thread is absolutely depressing.

Yep, the critics here on Demonland would know heaps more than Dangerfield (and Paul Roos).

Great post binman - thanks. I think we all have to accept that Watts training standards in late 2016 and during 2017 have not been what the club expects of him and what should be expected of him. The points of departure between posters here therefore seems to be: - whether Watts' training standards are able to be fixed going forward at the MFC, given that he has been in the system for long time and some would say this has been a bit of a theme for much of that period; - Watts' value/importance to the club going forward as a best 22 player; - whether, in trading Watts, we will be able to get a player or pick commensurate in value; and - whether trading such a popular figure amongst the players, sponsors and supporters will produce a negative impact for the club going forward, the consequences of which might be so culturally disruptive that it may outweigh any benefit in trading him. For me personally: - (standards) I think an experienced coach (such as Roos) would seek to fix Watts training standards at the club going forward - Goodwin is still growing into the role however and I expect he will be less tolerant/appreciative of some of the finer nuances of being a head coach and will default to a harsher, more binary approach to this; - (quality) he is definitely a player we will want/need in big games going forward (see Roos' comments above, he's a highly skilled player) - relevantly, I see him as best 22 in every other team the comp (possibly excluding the Crows because Tom Lynch is a better player and they might be competing for this spot in their structure); - (trade value) yet to see this, but I fear we won't get back something as good as we are letting go; and - (cultural impact) potentially massive. The upside in trading him is just not there IMO. I really hope the club, and Watts, can bury the hatchet and move forward, together. Time will tell I suppose.

He looks like Ben Stiller.

I actually like his shorts. That said, I'm not remotely impressed by the reports of him spending time in Byron following his injury to attend to his business, and in doing so significantly extending his rehab period. Business, study etc should supplement a player's time at a club, not impair it.

Paul Roos said as much at last year's B&F. This was in reference to Watts' influence on games prior to 2017. It's also possible to be a match winner and not BOG - there are many instances in all football codes of this. And I fail to see any similarities between this situation and Spencer's. They're plainly very different.

Sorry - I was just mucking around. Given Watts is the number one whipping boy here, I thought someone might link him to the smoke here ...

Jack Watts was in Adelaide the other day. Join the dots people ...

Apologies - I no longer know their names - immediately put them on ignore.

If he does, I expect he'll be very proud of his son. 99.999% of posters here are absolutely over the moon that he's nominated this club.

You've made your dislike of Watts abundantly clear. You're beginning to sound like Tony Abbott.

Thanks for posting the stats. I found it to be a very interesting point of comparison, particularly because: - I think Watts can be our Lynch; and - the club had a red hot crack at recruiting Lynch a year or so ago. It seems to me that the issue Goodwin and others have with Watts is not borne out in those stats. It seems to do with his attitude and commitment to training and rehabilitation etc. As a Watts supporter, I can see this. The Watts naysayers however throw everything into the mix, even if the stats plainly demonstrate something completely different.

No one contends that he performed poorly following his hamstring injury in 2017. This is exactly the one instance I had thought would be raised in response (in addition to not being included in the pre-season games this year). Relevantly, he overcame his poor performances post injury and ultimately performed strongly enough at Casey to be selected against the Pies. Watts was however in great form in 2016 and 2017 (prior to the hamstring injury). The Watts naysayers throw everything into the mix against him - they seemingly can't delineate between issues, facts and their own confirmation bias settings.

During the AFL seasons in 2016 and 2017, would you please identify when exactly Watts was dropped due to poor form. There's a fair degree of Trumpism attendant with your reply: 'produce all the stats you like' etc. There are clearly some issues with Watts, but I don't think it's particularly credible to conveniently dismiss things such as stats. Sings of confirmation bias. Plainly Watts has some ability and has delivered some very good performances in 2016 and 2017. I wouldn't have thought there's any controversy in this (especially given that it is backed up by objective data).

Great post - perfect assessment IMO. I too am very relieved that Mahoney has spelled out the situation clearly and without ambiguity. This had the potential to get really ugly, although I personally take some comfort from Mahoney's comments. I'm really glad the club promoted Mahoney into a leadership/management position. He has performed extremely well in this role. I'd like to see Jack Watts spend his career with the red and the blue. Clearly he needs to lift his approach to training though and not merely rely on his natural ability to deliver on the field, which IMO he generally has over the past 2 years. Seemingly Watts needs to realise that, given his age and time at the club, he is a leader and needs to behave like one, even if he does not ultimately wish to have a formal leadership position. Really hope to see him in the red and blue next year. Dominating.

I was looking forward to it. I had thought we were finally run super professionally, were culturally sound, and were becoming a destination club. Then this - this has put the proverbial fire in the hole. It's been thoroughly amateurish - so much so, it reminds me of a period in this club's history that I never wished to experience ever again. I can't see why Goodwin has taken to speaking publicly about this stuff. It's not cool. At the very least, that the club excitedly signed Watts up for 3 years not that long ago, plainly with the same level of knowledge of the player's skills, appetite for the contest, training standards and performance history as now, makes the club look absolutely negligent, or, if not negligent, malevolent. I hope both parties can work together to bury the axe and sort this out amicably. I'm sweating on this in fact - I cannot endure being taken back to the Dark Ages. I've been there. For an eternity. It sucked.

Just going on what Jono Brown stated OTC the other day. It's hearsay but I'm willing to rely on it. And nobody would ever contend the second sentence of your first paragraph - in fact, I think it absolutely supports my earlier comment.

What's the issue with him having his own business? All professional clubs encourage their players to study or focus on building a business, rather than playing X Box and gambling their lives away in their spare time.

Not sure he's the only one. I don't really get it either.

I really rate Goodwin. And his CV. He's an asset to this club. But decisions like this can have some seriously negative and unintended consequences for the club, and I really hope any decision to move Watts on is not in this bucket.

And then he was bloody good until he injured his hammy. In fact, he was a super important player for us after Gawn went down. Dustin Martin is known as a poor trainer. Some of his teammates joke than he can't bench more than 90 kgs, yet he can push off a rhino with one hand at full tilt. Watts' performances over the past two years have actually been very good. What he did, or failed to do, 2 plus years ago is irrelevant - in fact, it's irrelevant for every current player in the competition.

I hope Goodwin watches the OTC interview with Hardwick. Everyone talks about Richmond's defensive pressure and intensity around the contest, but a key component to the Tigers' success, in Hardwick's words, has been about creating a safe and happy environment for the players and 'believing and investing in your people'. Hardwick quite consciously decided not to micro-manage the life out of everything this year - and looked what happened. As I've stated previously, I am very impressed with Goodwin and think he will be an excellent long term coach for us. But everyone has blind spots, and most first year coaches seem to take some time to know when to loosen the grip on everything. Goodwin might still be in this zone a little.

Yet we're salivating about the prospect of getting a young required player from a club that just played in a Grand Final because he wants to live in MLB. Fair dinkum.

I've always rated Rohan and would love to see him in the red and the blue. That said, I'd thought the knock on him was his lack of defensive pressure.

Great post.