Whispering_Jack

Well yes...and I agree with much of that but it's easy to overlook the fact that the CEO was there during the period in which the enormous debt left by previous administrations was erased (to the tune of something like $5m) or to rationalise that he was piggybacking off others. That's fine with me - as a great man once said, "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones." All depends on the way you look at it.

And this is going to go on till October.

Plough finished off his top 10 after stopping at 5 last week:- 1. GWS TOM BOYD (Eastern Ranges) 2. Melbourne JAMES AISH (South Australia) 3. St. Kilda JOSH KELLY (Sandringham Dragons) 4. W Bulldogs MATT SCHARENBERG (South Australia) 5. Gold Coast JACK BILLINGS (Oakleigh Chargers) 6. Brisbane DOM SHEED (Western Australia) 7. West Coast BEN LENNON (Northern Knights) 8. North Melbourne LUKE MCDONALD (Oakleigh Chargers F/S) 9. Carlton LEWIS TAYLOR (Geelong Falcons) 10. GWS MATT CROUCH (North Ballarat)

Fair dinkum. It's 10 minutes before the game and I've seen bigger crowds at Shield matches.

Sorry - can't claim the copyright on the Four Aminos. I saw that in a Patrick Smith article. Clever though.

Yep and I'll bet that the Four Aminos aren't all that happy to be associated with Dank at this juncture. Of course, Dank's loyalty to the club that sacked him stands in stark contrast to some of the rats who got the Khyber from Melbourne but then again, if what's alleged about the supplements programme introduced at Essendon is true, he would be smart to hold that line. Still, if the Bombers persist with their threat to go to the law then I wonder what would happen if Dank and his documents were subpoenaed?

I think I might have put a spell on Hirdy with this line "Sleep shall neither night nor day Hang upon his penthouse lid; He shall live a man forbid: Weary . . ." I doubt that James is getting much sleep lately.

That might well be true Nasher, but the connotation behind "hatred" is an emotional one which doesn't properly sum up the feelings of those players with who I had discussions about Neeld. I think that's important when looking at who should coach this playing group and, on the other side of the equation, who of the playing group we should be retaining or putting up for trade and/or delisting. Those who played on to the best of their ability like Nathan Jones should be commended. The softies who want to wait and see who the next coach is are in need of either drastic reeducation or the boot.

Ben, I beg to differ on both counts.On Mark Neeld I've spoken with a sample of the players about him and I would suggest that it wasn't so much hatred which is far too strong a word but rather, that in the end, it was Neeld's failure to garner respect from the playing group. They found him too inflexible and unable to convince them of his methods and the style of play he wanted from them. From my perspective, he never really demonstrated an ability to change a game or turn it around to avoid the massive confidence sapping losses that were a feature of his 33 game coaching tenure. We are now left with a shell-shocked group that's struggling and desperately in need of an end to the season and a new start under a new coach. The changes under Neil Craig have helped a little but these were offset by injuries to so many key on field personnel. In short, we need a new start with fresh faces at the helm. But my view is that the players didn't hate Neeld - he simply wasn't up to it as an AFL coach. On Schwab, I don't think his attendance or otherwise at training sessions or his style would define his role as CEO. He did a lot of good things in his role but in the end, it was the failure of the team to improve that brought him and others undone and for which he rightly took ultimate responsibility. The reality is that it took more than Schwab and Neeld to produce the train wreck which was the result of a several year build up of poor coaching, recruiting, list management and player development. This is the culmination of a decade or more of poor leadership at the club and can't be sheeted home against one person or one board. I just hope it's behind us now and wish those who are picking up the pieces good luck. I don't know enough about Glen Bartlett and some of the other new faces (or PJ for that matter) to say I have full confidence in them yet but, like most of us, I'm hoping. PS How did we get into this discussion on the Casey thread?

This great article from Martin Flanagan really resonates with me - Theatre of sport provides a ghostly insight on the soul I first saw Macbeth played at the Union Theatre at Melbourne University almost 50 years ago as a high school student. During the swordfight a two shilling piece rolled out of one of the soldiers' pockets. It rolled for what seemed an eternity before it stopped to the laughter of the audience. That year, I also had a role in the school play of Macbeth as a witch. The ghostly images in the play and the suspense of that rolling coin is reminiscent of the tragic events taking place in the sport today Flanigan, as usual picks the mood well.

The Bomber hierarchy are playing an incredible game of brinksmanship with their club. Pardon me for saying this but I think they would be far better of taking their medicine and paying the price for the appalling mess their own internal report admits was created by their supplements programme. Sure, if they filibuster and take this situation beyond the 26 August scheduled date for hearing, they will get to play finals in September but then what? Do they really expect vindication?

I think it's true that a great deal will depend on who will coach and, to a lesser extent, whether Melbourne gets a priority pick at or near the top of the draft. I wouldn't discount some radical changes to our list that could well see us trading Jack Watts, Colin Sylvia going elsewhere and us taking one or two free agents in his place. Let's face it. For whatever reason, with our current list we have been abject failures. I don't fear losing Jack Watts, Colin Sylvia or anyone else who doesn't feel comfortable about being on board. 2014 is going to be a brand new day for us and some of our players are going to wake up one morning, playing elsewhere. Others nowhere at all. That's the nature of the game.

If it's true that Roos is being honest then isn't it time we were honest with ourselves and asked whether we wanted someone as coach who doesn't really want to coach?

I like the fact that we have a board containing both old and new blood that allows for the transition into the future. I trust that with the addition of one or two more good people we can move on to the pressing matters that need to be dealt with, most particularly the appointment of the coach. I suspect that we're also going to see a lot of change both on and off the field. It's going to be fascinating and I suspect there's going to be controversy - hopefully in a positive way.

I doubt that a relative of Joe's would align himself with Stockers.Adam makes a good point and he's a smart young bloke with some good ideas. If his heart is in the club he should have a crack at getting onto the board regardless of the Stockdale ticket.

I wouldn't be worrying about Clayton Utz. They're big, successful and have a very good reputation in the legal world.

Congratulations to Glen Bartlett on his appointment as club chairman and best of wishes for a long and fruitful term in the role. Let's hope the entire club gets behind him and his team and that they lead us to a successful future (and don't take long getting us there)!

Didn't play for us but did provide service. The Russian went on some years later to become an All Australian ruckman and Jeff White also benefitted from his coaching. His personna on TFS is buffoonish but he's not necessary a fool. PS I loathe the programme, mainly because of the buffoonish behaviour of the cast & crew which includes Sammy.

Richard Ings tweet asks this question (presumably of someone associated with Essendon past or present)

Choko's modest but some of the most intelligent, smart and handsome people in the room sat at his table

Friday 4 October - Gillette AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period begins. Friday 4 October by 2pm - Gillette AFL father-son bidding nominations; Academy bidding nominations lodged with AFL. Monday 7 October 10am - father/son and Academy players bidding meeting; Gillette AFL Trade period begins. Friday 18 October at 5pm - close of Gillette AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period. Monday 21 October - Gillette AFL restricted free agency matching offer three-day period ends. Friday 25 October at 2pm - Gillette AFL Trade period closes. Thursday 31 October by 2pm - list lodgement (1); rookie promotion to primary list; retained second and third-year rookies; scholarship players; alternate talent player nominations. Friday 1 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (1) begins. Friday 8 November - international players inclusion on rookie list form; players not registered or played for 3 years rookie list form lodgement. Wednesday 13 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (1) closes; out of contract listed AFL primary list players draft nomination form and player request for removal from list form lodged with AFL; new or expired (after 3 years) draft nomination form lodgement. Priority zone selections – NSW/ACTand NT on the primary list of GWS Giants. Thursday 14 November by 2pm - list lodgement (2) and TPP estimates. Friday 15 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (2) commences. Monday 18 November – delisted primary list draft nomination form lodgement; non–retained rookie players draft nomination form lodgement; Gillette AFL delisted free agency period (2) concludes. Thursday 21 November - NAB AFL Draft selection meeting (Gold Coast Convention Centre). Friday 22 November - Gillette AFL delisted player free agency period (3) commences. Monday 25 November - Gillette AFL delisted free agency period (3) concludes; AFL club list lodgement (3); notification of NSW and Qld pre-selected rookies, father-son pre-selected rookies, Academy pre-selected rookies, international scholarship pre-selected rookies and scholarship pre-selected rookies nominated if not selected in the pre-season draft. Wednesday 27 November - NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft selection meeting (11am, Telstra Webex); NAB AFL Rookie Draft selection meeting (11.10am, Telstra Webex) Monday 2 December – final list lodgement and final TPP estimates.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that last year, the dinner raised a shade under $700k. The result from last night remains outstanding in the circumstances and well done to all the FH's (including myself ) who contributed.

I posted some very general observations on the match preview thread - THE TIME MACHINE but I'd like to hear from others as to their impressions. A few snippets I heard were that James Frawley and Chris Dawes will probably miss again this week but will be available for the Adelaide game. There's a bit of a feeling that we've turned the corner and much regret that we couldn't beat Gold Coast when we had them on toast. The feeling is that Mitch Clark who is already back in training will be right for a full and productive season in 2014. The qualification rules for VFL finals are different this year and, unlike in the past, we should have good numbers eligible for the finals and give the flag a shake. There's a fair bit of optimism about next year (yes, we've heard it all before) with a new president, new coach and the likely influx of new players starting with Jesse Hogan whose possible role was described by one player as being similar to Matty Pavlich at Freo. The move certainly wasn't jovial but the sense is that we're quietly moving forward.

It really depends on how you define "shafted". All players reach a time when they have to move or be moved on. James McDonald had reached that stage a few years ago at the age of 33. Problem was the situation was badly handled by the coach and the football department. Perhaps it was this that ultimately sowed the seeds of discontent that came to a head with 186. Robbo spoke at last night's Foundation Dinner and while he conceded he was upset when told it was the end for him, he recognised that the time had come. I don't think many of the above names were really "shafted" but some, like Moloney, played a part in their demise.

Damien Barrett writing on the AFL site says there is carnage yet to come - AFL v Essendon: who will blink first? I think most of us would like to know is exactly what was injected into the Essendon players off site and for which they signed waivers? The simple truth will do.