Go Ds

Surely almost every factor is the responsibility of both coaches AND players. If not that creates opportunities to avoid responsibility and the positive change, you rationally desire, doesn't happen. This is not my wheelhouse. But I'd assume come the break after Mad Monday the coaches will at least give advice how to return for preseason reasonably fit and the players follow it. Actually on the same theme wouldn't players get instructions all the time for their weights program, cardio, nutrition and so forth ... and the players follow them? And don't clubs monitor a staggering amount of stuff? I'm sure players think they had their usual hard-running game until the GPS shows otherwise. Anyway we do need to improve fitness. But unless players are deliberately cutting corners or being uncooperative it's incumbent on the coaches to help guide and redirect players towards those goals.

Umm, you seem to be deflecting. GW was pointing out that the players do care about our horrible loss and season. Surely no one's claiming they're the unluckiest people on the planet.(!) As to St Kilda's 666 "plan" could it simply be that Wanganeen-Millera knew he had a great chance of running inside 50 , and same as for many decades, the tactic of creating space can let a player be found separated from opponents? It could well be no team had a contingency plan for what fate dished up for either team last Sunday.

Actually an interesting question. Do Melbourne supporters prefer being miserable or euphoric?

Yep, even after yesterday's demoralising capitulation I still roll my eyes at the hysterical negativity here

Maybe they do care but as per the quote Gawn's said I think originally from Daniher "when all is said and done more is said than done". Yes, it's crude but when will the Melbourne FC stop putting its **** in the blender?!

Yep! And if staff or players just hope to succeed they probably should be moved on. (BTW that wasn't my main point)

I'm sure I could find others. But don't forget other teams have these moments too. Even IF we're the worst it may well be only slightly. (We only concentrate on our team.)

Ok. I agree with a lot of that. But still a club's employees mostly would "go into work" each day focussed on on-field success. I don't think the fact that even the 18th team gets a cut of the pie means many in the staff want to just coast along.

What are you talking about? Maybe there are players or staff that prioritise getting more spare time who take short cuts. But overall surely every club wants success, success, success even it's more a coincidence that that's the same thing the supporters want. Surely no one on the MFC payroll wanted that result today nor would be surprised supporters didn't either.

A) If the players are at fault it seems bizarre they'd not only claim it's not them but also go out of their way to throw someone else under the bus. Regularly players would get delisted not due to lack of ability but because they downright refuse to follow coaches' instructions, and come October, they've used up every last bit of coach leniency. Ive no idea why our players cannot get things right. But it might mainly be selfish or stupid players or conversely it could be you're right and Goodwin should be turfed before November. B) If Goodwin has lost the players a much easier plan is to just keep failing spectacularly - a 10 goal loss to West Coast next week may well save everyone a fortune. Just keep in mind if he hasn't lost the players his sacking may do more harm than good for team morale and suddenly like with GC and GWS's debut drafts we're forced to watch Tasmania take the highest picks we desperately need (and if the players are the problem we prolong the suffering a few more years while throwing away the rare phenomenon of a coach who proved he could win his current team a flag)

No, you can't claim losing Treloar was a good idea. If someone's started betting on roulette and is losing a grand or two each month it can't be claimed he's a brilliant punter because he's in a better car (which is because his salary went up 100k you don't know about and nothing to do with his punting losses)

Huh? Everyone wants perfection but how about we accept most of what happens with our club? Unless a posse of disgruntled fans can assert beyond reasonable doubt their club needs drastic change and these fans act on that , brooding about your less than perfect team only causes stress and misery. Anyway I remember how frustrating to see time and time again Melbourne have false dawns. But now, unlike quite a few adults, I know what it feels like to see my team win a flag (and they don't.... and supporters attitudes can be so different to the players and coaches... who I hope are never satisfied and always want to improve and have more success.)

I am but some random fan. I'm sure there are people at the club in a good position to answer you. Unfortunately there may be too many stupid, incompetent people 'steering' our future. I dunno - it's hard to see any sunshine after today's waking nightmare.

Do we have a sports psychologist? So often we underperform due to complacency or fear. Surely we need a new one (and obviously a new fitness coach) before the preseason starts.

Umm, but did they? I already asked this. Collingwood might have gone backwards one step due to losing one or both of those players. But if the introduction of the likes of McRae, Nick Daicos and Bobby Hill moved moved them forward FOUR steps it would be easy to overlook that overall Collingwood moved three rather than four steps forward and that Grundy and Treloar's moving on were actually mistakes. Anyway, I expect some upheaval come our finals-less September. Hopefully this will be done by competent people showing due diligence.

It's just an estimate. I'm sure at the end of some season he'll realise it's time. End of 27 or 28 is realistic. But like other old-timers he might go longer if his body and motivation are still strong.

Do we honestly know most of the behind the scenes discussions players have with other teams? Correct me if I'm wrong but unlike players in the draft these ones can decide which clubs they move across to. Is it possible Melbourne tried to get these players in vain? Didn't North have few years where they failed to get players such as Dusty and Josh Kelly?

I'm not sure Treloar leaving didn't hurt them. Buckley lasted only half a season and the Pies were awful in their first year without him. Collingwood have been great since. But how much of that is McRae, Nick Daicos and other players as opposed to good planning?

Umm didn't they mainly get rid of those players because their salary cap was 'bursting at the seams'? And weren't Collingwood paying a good portion of their salaries at their new clubs?

Were you being serious? Nothing wrong with different opinions, but please not illogical ones. Do you think it's a good look whingeing about a teammate's verdict given the bias and potential backlash , and the fact that many e former players (and even Paddy Cripps) are much more effectively championing May's case for acquittal? How about Gawn's son? Don't make out Dad went out of his way to teach and coerce his son into singing the Carlton theme song. It's fluff that gets a quick, harmless laugh and not even remotely a black mark on Gawn. So what was illogical? Melbourne having any interaction with fans and viewers? The whole team not whipping themselves as per the villain in The Da Vinci Code? No! And while I agree with concerns of you and @poita it is what it is. We lost Bradshaw. We almost lost Trac. The likes of May, Lever, Viney and Oliver are getting older and slower and well, the next captain choice hinges a lot of whether it happens in 2027 or 2029. If it's the latter every current player has at least 4 years under their belt and possibly a player from another team comes across and after 2 or 3 yrs is the unanimous choice for Max's replacement. Honestly you may as well be having big discussions with your spouse about which high school your newborn should be going to.

The Essendon player delisted after he couldn't get a game in their 11th-place team? 🤣🤣🤣

It's possible that we wouldn't even have won the flag in 21 if Gawn weren't captain. Do you really think it's helpful for everyone to be desperately miserable their every waking minute while we flounder?! Your post is dreadful!

Yep! In 100 minutes of play you just can't lose due to umpiring alone. Our season/season and a half drop-off is not due to umpires. Maybe we really would have won 3 more games this year and one more last, with less umpire howlers. Regardless that doesn't get us into finals or excuse much. Anyway I know the team will at least try and address our issues in September while many of 'em will feel that these two inactive Septembers shouldn't have happened.

Okay. I see your point. Admittedly I notice player mistakes too. In the best game ever played I bet the successful team still made mistakes. I really don't know what to make of umpiring. It's impossible for it to be perfect and often the public should just shut up and not use it as a cop out for most of their team's losses. But if a player misses a shot from the goal square or an umpire does as bad with a dreadful decision it's fair enough for me to comment - even blame both in a close loss.. For both of them I'd hope there are coaches and supervisors to iron this stuff out, especially if attitude, poor technique or strategy or bias are to blame. (Oh, and I bet no coach and few players totally dismiss their part in a loss - even if they're cursing the umpire(s) and brooding on what might have been.)

Sorry, do you mean a decision in the last minute is no more important than ones in the other 100 something 100 minutes? I still can't agree with you. Do the umpire bosses review the umpiring of entire games. I bet there are times where there's a few howlers and team A should have had 3 frees awarded 25 metres out and / or team B should have less frees at similar spots at the other end. Given plenty of margins are under a goal it can be all of one mistake which has the wrong team win.