old55

I feel like Alice in Wonderland. Try to follow the thread. I didn't compare Lever with Rance, I compared him with Hogan. The point is that Lever is a young star of the competition like Hogan, Petracca, Oliver. Lever is CHB in Best 22 Under 22 two years in a row - Hogan, Petracca and Oliver have also made that team once. When you are thinking about the trade value for Lever you need to think in terms of what you would want for Hogan, Petracca or Oliver in similar circumstances. Pick 10 and change is not going to cut it.

I'm sure Richmond wouldn't see it that way - they'd look for the same value in trade for each. Rance more if anything.

Carlton value him that high and he's in contract so they hold the aces.

Rance v J.Riewoldt?

Adelaide want Gibbs and Carlton played hard ball last year demanding 2 x 1st rounders. Something like this could play out, noting that unfortunately Carlton do not have a 2017 2nd: Adelaide: Out: 17 + Lever; In: 10 + Gibbs Carlton: Out: Gibbs + 2018 2nd; In: 17 + MFC 2018 1st MFC: Out: 10 + 2018 1st; In: Lever + Carlton 2018 2nd

We'll see. He's in the same category as Hogan - would you take that for him?

That's really Lever for pick 10 and 2 pick swaps that basically cancel each other out. It's going to take more than that.

Do you mean like Collingwood with Treloar and Hawthorn with O'Meara? I don't envy those deals.

Garland would have played seniors early in 2017 if he wasn't injured. if Lever comes though he'll be further down the depth list in 2018. We're talking about Garland or a pick in the 60s, it's not a major issue either way.

Dodoro was fair with us in Melksham and Hibberd deals. And in the Carlisle deal with the Saints too, it was the Saints going too hard there.

We have to de-list VDB and then re-draft him in the Rookie Draft to achieve this. Other clubs have 2 free swings at him as a De-listed FA and then ahead of us in the RD. The players that you consider this strategy for are players on the Senior List that have contracts that you should honour but that you don't really care one way or another about retaining. You guarantee you'll rookie them if no-one else picks them up. Many here were suggesting we do this with Hunt two years ago but we because we valued him we retained him on the list. If we value VDB then we should retain him.

I know. You've gone from 10 + 27 to 10 + 27 - 40. You'd win if that happened, but I feel confident that won't happen.

Trengove is UFA. No-one needs to trade to get him.

Yep, I feel confident that it would take more than 10 + 27 for Lever + 40 (assuming Kent = Balic). The closest we might get to your 10 + 27 is 10 + 2018 1st for Lever + 35. Depending on how our 2018 1st is valued (12, 13?) they're about equal in points, but I think Adelaide would prefer the latter.

I like your points measurement and am very happy to go with that. http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf I make 10 + 27 = 1395 + 703 = 2098. It only needs to be more than that and I win But it will get complicated if future picks and players get involved - we may need an impartial judge. Let's hope we have to decide - because we have Lever!

Hold the phone!

Yes, I bet you a donation to Demonland that it will take more than that to get it done.

if 10 + 27 = 14 + 16 and 14 + 16 = Lever then 10 + 27 = Lever

Yes but if 10 and 27 get us 14 and 16 which we pass on for Lever, then 10 and 27 should get Lever - there's a logic failure there. FWIW I think it will (and should) take more than 10 and 27 for Lever.

Likely but AFAIK not "confirmed". Link please?

OK, thanks for that. I mistakenly thought it was you who started the rumour on here but it was @Still Waiting who hasn't come back and explained how the Saints give us an "early 2nd round pick" that they don't have. Cheers!

Where are these Watts to Saints rumours coming from?

Starting to sound like you're making scenarios up as you go along. Do you actually have inside knowledge of Saints interest in Watts? FWIW I wouldn't do that deal. I expect we're going to trade our 1st rounder and I don't think it's going to make much difference to the deal whether it's 7 or 10 so it's really Watts for Saints 2018 2nd rounder which is a poor deal. A deal I would do is Watts and our 2nd rounder for pick 8, then we could use 8 and 10 in deals for Lever and Gaff.

Saints don't have a 2nd round pick - they have 7, 8, 43. Maybe you can clarify with your source?

I didn't see the side's steel and composure in the winnable matches against North x2, Freo, Hawthorn or Collingwood. For a player of Lewis experience and credentials, there is no try, only do.