old55

Got any proposals? It's a problem invented by you. I don't see the problem. I've reasoned above that he's worth pick 20.

But we wont have pick 30 we'll have around pick 20 and pick 40

I'm a fan of recruiting Langdon, he's the right age profile and he offers us pace, endurance and field position in metres gained. There's some concern about his kicking but I think this may be overblown. I think most here will rate Salem as one of our best field kicks and they stack up reasonably similarly in the data below: Average Disposals: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2019&rt=LA&st=DI Average metres gained: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2019&rt=LA&st=MG Need to leaven this with average turnovers though: https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2019&rt=LA&st=TO Isaac Smith 74th for disposals, 17th for metres gained, but 10th for turnovers Brad Hill 51st for disposals, 11th for metres gained, 22nd for turnovers Ed Langdon 54th for disposals, 39th for metres gained, 78th for turnovers Salem 50th for disposals, 34th for metres gained, 76th for turnovers - very similar numbers to Langdon I like Isaac Smith and Brad Hill too but Smith is a lot older (30yo) and based on these number turns it over a surprising amount. Brad Hill (26yo) will be a lot more expensive in trade and salary than Langdon (23yo) and he too turns it over a surprising amount. I'd be happy to add any of those three, but those numbers make Langdon look attractive.

I think Hibberd, Melksham and Langdon offered similar levels of quality when they joined us. Or in Langdon's case when he joins us. Hibberd was 27, Melksham was 25 and Langdon is 23. Therefore that's the order of increasing cost because you get the quality for longer and that's what happened with Hibberd and Melksham. Hibberd is starting to look near the end. So paying more for Langdon makes sense - our current 2nd rounder.

Jones, Viney, Jetta and Gawn are the four in the leadership group this year. Jones wont be captain next year or in the leadership group, he'll be concentrating on making the 22. IMO it will be Viney and Gawn next year, with Jetta concentrating on getting fit to play. Hopefully Viney can have an injury free run and play to his capabilities. They might add TMac and/or Lever to the leadership group.

Coaches' votes in the past two rounds https://www.aflcoaches.com.au/awards/the-aflca-champion-player-of-the-year-award/leaderboard/2019/20190121

He's a capable 1st ruck - he was good against Carlton and Kreuzer, strong in the ruck contest and provided a good marking target down the line. From MFC pov he's good injury insurance for Max but they can't both play together because neither has good forward craft. The move from North is not so good for Preuss, particularly if Goldy is moving on this year - but we all knew that this time last year and were puzzled by his thinking.

I had the good fortune to meet Brendan on 3 occasions and hear his football views thanks to the great man @george_on_the_outer Brendan has an uncompromising philosophy on the lifestyle sacrifices, and the skills and attributes required to make it as an AFL footballer. It's a tough philosophy that I find it very difficult to argue against - I didn't notice you doing that there either. IMO he made an invaluable contribution to both Geelong's and the Dogs' premiership success. His message is very tough and it probably has a use-by-date and I'm a bit surprised he was at Geelong so long, but he was a younger man then. I've got no doubt his contribution will be key to the premiership success of our current group at Melbourne and I'm thankful for his input. I wish him all the best for the future.

mccartney-sees-bright-future-for-dees You were saying?

Yes all class there and very positive about the future.

I'd like to see Viney tried as a small forward. He has some real acceleration, could get to fall of the ball and win the contest, is a generally clean ball-handler, and would be a genuine tackling threat that would spark fear and panic in opposition defenders. There has been some resistance raised from a good judge because his kicking is not great and our inability to convert has really hurt us. This could well be the killer but he could not be worse than ANB.

I agree that I don't see the match-up for OMac this week and I'd prefer to see Hore playing in his place, but the hyperbole about his play against the Tigers is completely over the top. Lynch and Riewoldt did not dominate the game and Frost and Omac both did a decent defensive job. OMac had 8 1%s - the most of anyone on the ground and 5 intercepts. Lynch kicked 3 goals but he only took 4 marks - he got 3 of the softest free-kicks ever given - he went to the Matthew Lloyd FF school of acting and is one of the biggest stagers going round. In one instance at the Punt Road end Southern side he pushed OMac fair in the chest when the ball was miles away and was awarded the mark - I was OK with that but not in the context of him getting frees from OMac simply touching him in the marking contest. Similarly Riewoldt played well enough but didn't dominate like he has in the past, sure his 0.3 could easily have been 3.0 but that's still a modest return with the service he had. OMac has his limitations and a couple of time was caught out on the lead, his lack of body-on-body in these instances is concerning, but when he did apply legitimate pressure he was free-kicked. He does turn it over too often for my liking for someone who generally takes the safe option, unlike Frost. But people have set opinions about players and can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.

Yes, I think it depends on what "big" turns out to mean. I expect us to pick up someone who can play on the wing - probably Langdon, maybe B.Hill (probably too expensive) or Z.Jones. I'd like us to find a small forward who can apply pressure and is dangerous around goals - ANB and Jeffy aren't up to it for different reasons and Spargo definitely stalled. Maybe one of Richmond's surplus - but I wasn't impressed with Butler last week and he has been dropped for Stack I'm guessing. Not sure about other options - maybe Lewis Taylor. The FD will have a target if they think, like me, that it's a need. Getting Papley would be big. I think they are substantial changes - adding hopefully 2 players to our best 22 and we should add another one with pick 2 - IMO we should definitely use this in the draft, I'm not expecting us to see picks anywhere near that early again for many years. Others are advocating for a marking forward - that's more likely to be the "big" category, but who is really available - Patton? There's Jenkins, Westhoff and maybe even Jarryd Roughead for a year as a bridge for Weid, but I wouldn't call any of them big gets. There's also been talk of Keath and some good judges I know are keen. Picking him up is not a big get in itself, but what it says about our structure is pretty big. We paid a lot for Lever and May (good gets IMO) but to add yet another key back would be a big statement when Frost is having a very good year, Petty is showing some great signs and they're continuing to select OMac. I suspect if Keath comes that means one of Frost or Petty may go - we need to pay for the winger and the forward and retain pick 2, so someone decent has to give. Mahoney does a great job IMO, he's proactive, has his targets lined up and generally gets his man. It will be fascinating to see what he has in store this year.

Enjoy your thoughtful posting LH and you make some good points about the line coaches' inexperience. But I think you're being harsh on list management - the list is still a work in progress and I'm OK with that. I see 6 best 22 in your list above: May, Lever, Melksham, Fritsch, Hibberd, Hannan - some may debate the last 2. KK and J.Smith are potential best 22 also, but have been injured. Hore, Petty, Baker and Jordon have all shown something this year are possible best 22 when they develop some more. Preuss is there as specific back-up if Max gets injured and was competent against Carlton in that role, at least until he ran out of gas in the last quarter. So a good selection IMO. Lewis was recruited for a sound purpose and was best 22 but is not now. IMO it's really too early to make a call on Spargo, Sparrow, Bedford, Nietschke, Chandler, C.Wagner, Lockhart, Walker, Bradtke and Dunkley and only the first four of them were selected in the ND, the other 6 are speculative. J.Wagner, Maynard, Keilty and T.Smith (mainly because he's always injured - he could be reasonable depth otherwise) look like busts but they were all Rookie selections - so it happens.

Despite injuries Collingwood is fielding a mature team: Average Attributes Melbourne Attribute Collingwood 187.5cm Height 186.9cm 87.7kg Weight 86.8kg 24yr 10mth Age 26yr 8mth 96.1 Games 117.8 Total Players By Games Melbourne Games Collingwood 6 Less than 50 6 9 50 to 99 3 4 100 to 149 6 3 150 or more 7 https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/afl_team_selections#9893

Interesting that you selected the two players that were chosen directly BEFORE our selections in both those 2017 and 2018 drafts - players that would not have been available to us - so no we couldn't have had Naughton or Duursma. But then your argument looks a bit weaker if you nominate Lochie O'Brien and Liam Stocker who were actually taken at the traded picks doesn't it?

So you're saying Lever and May are permanent busts? I look forward to having this conversation same time in 2020.

23-25 year olds on MFC list: Best 22: Salem, Harmes, Petracca, Lever, Brayshaw Solid performers: Hore, Hunt Depth/Developing: Preuss, JKH, OMac, ANB Currently injured: J.Smith, KK

From the respective teams fielded last week: Average Attributes Collingwood Attribute Melbourne 187.7cm Height 188.1cm 87.5kg Weight 88.0kg 26yr 9mth Age 24yr 8mth 119.2 Games 89.9 Total Players By Games Collingwood Games Melbourne 5 Less than 50 7 4 50 to 99 9 6 100 to 149 3 7 150 or more 3 https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=9889 Collingwood v Gold Coast https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=9887 Melbourne v Richmond Replace Lewis with Hannan in our line-up - a legitimate and preferred outcome - and our age profile drops to 24y 2m and the games to 75. For some these facts are reasons, while for others they are excuses

In addition Collingwood are consistently fielding a team 2 years older and 30 games more mature than us, despite the fact that we have Lewis and Jones by far our oldest and most experienced players pumping up our numbers. As noted above we're consistently fielding young inexperienced teams.

That analysis looks compelling on the surface but I'm not sure it's as rigorous as it might be. I looked back at the 4 key games at the end of last year when Tom and Sam played key forward roles and I've highlighted the opponents not identified above: R22 vs West Coast: Opposition key defenders playing: Barrass, McGovern, Sheppard Barrass and Sheppard are the nominated opponents above but this seems to ignore the impact of the league's best aerial defender McGovern who played 85% gametime R23 vs GWS: Opposition key defenders playing: Davis, Keefe, Haynes TMac kicked 3 apparently on Lachlan Keefe. Who was Phil Davis (who later on in the analysis is rightly rated as a premier defender) playing on for 91% gametime then? Sam had 17 disposals 6 marks (including 2 contested) and kicked a goal. EF vs Geelong: Opposition key defenders playing: Blicavs, Henderson, Taylor Apparently Henderson was on Sam. Who were Blicavs (also rated later on as a premier defender) and Taylor on? They don't seem to rate a mention. Tom took 7 marks and kicked 3 goals. SF vs Hawthorn: Opposition key defenders playing: Frawley, Sicily, Mirra? Tom took 10 marks and kicked 4 apparently on Frawley. Apparently Mirra at 186cm was on Weid, what was Sicily up to? There's just too many questions there for me to take that analysis as definitive.

Yes - JKH 5 clearances last night. He played pretty well IMO. Should play for the rest of the season. There were some positive signs in that match - there's is no way the players threw the towel in. I was expecting a belting but it didn't come. Petty, Baker, Wagner and Dunkley all showed a glimpse of AFL capability, Petty more than a glimpse, against very strong opposition - they can build on this over next pre-season. OMac was crucified by the umpires - Lynch is one of the worst free kick stagers I've seen for a very long time. Dusty is just a class above anyone else playing the game.

Stack calf injury at training reported on afl.com.au Nankervis playing VFL again. Mary should be able to dominate Soldo. I head on AFL Fantasy captains update that there's a rumour that Max has an ankle issue. Anyone attend trading and can verify or deny? I'm nervous that there may be carnage anyway.

Is that the best example you could come up with? Nick Sautner was one of the greatest VFA/VFL FFs ever. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Sautner

The ground was lengthened a few years back with an excavation at the southern Sautner end. Cricket is not played there. The Saints have been busy yoyoing between Moorabbin and Seaford to trai there. I don't recall Sandringham restricting MFC player development. In fact at the time when we won 3 or 4 flags there I thought a successful culture may breed success. I am biased living 200m from TBO - the alliance years were great days for me.