rpfc

I agree with E25 - you seem to have a 'fundamentalist' (heh) view of atheism. I'm a atheist, but I have thought about religion in my life and studied it at uni. Religion has a lot to offer and the Bible itself is full of more useful allegorical anecdotes of good moral behaviour than the Harry Potter series. And the are 7 times longer and sold twice as many copies...

Yes they would have. You gotta pay someone... That is the short version of what 45 is saying. All teams down the bottom of the ladder are overpaying underperformers. It's the nature of the system.

I'm a not going to get stuck on the minutiae - I was just trying to give my argument some evidence (sorely lacking in some other posters 'arguments'). I have bolded the 'bruce left' bits of your post because that is my point. He left. We didn't force him out, I have tried to fashion a window into his motives and have tried to be logical about it. You're right that we don't know. We never really can tell what is going on inside someone's head. But he left the MFC. The MFC were willing to keep him and offered him above market and a 12th year at this great club. Cameron the Bruce left the building of his own accord for his own reasons.

I agree with most of what you say here. Not the win-win thing. We lost a VC for nothing (but we wouldn't have got much so who cares). And also the 'we could have kept him' argument gives undeserved fire to the argument that Bobby is clinging desperately to. We couldn't have kept him within reason. Money wouldn't have done it. He's on less. Extra year? Maybe but getting toward irresponsible by the club. Captaincy? Yes, but irresponsible. So all things being equal and the club working in a (shock horror) reasonable fashion - we could NOT have kept Cameron Bruce at the club.

That's not an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes.

I suggest you read the thread, or maybe the last 4 pages. We have run through all the arguments, and while I know that things don't happen because of one causal instrument - the facts lead me to believe Cameron wanted success in his final couple of years. That was his overriding desire as would have gotten two years (because of the VL opening), more money, and a legacy at the Demons. But no flag. I have quoted him in an earlier post where he says essentially that. Honestly, just read the thread before calling someone's viewpoint naive. It's incredibly... yeah, naive...

You are dreaming! 2012? Rucks recruited as teens will take 5 years on average or not come on at all. They are long term decisions. And by long term - I don't mean three years...

How old are you?! It isn't like in RE when the chaplain will sit them all down and read the Bible... I'm an atheist as are many others but having a chaplain is fine. Do you prefer a different name? Holy person? Shaman? Honestly, this thread makes little baby jesus cry.

What?! You are still flogging this dead, and proven to be false in earlier posts with DIRECT QUOTES FROM YOUR FRIEND CAMERON and his new coach, horse?! Clarkson said that BEFORE the season ended Bruce (via Nixon) appraoched the Hawks. Queen to H2. Bruce will be on less at Hawthorn than he would get at the Demons. Rook to F7. Bruce has said that he has gone to Hawthorn to win a flag in his short time left. Knight to D5. Check-fracking-mate. I know how much, as a Melbourne supporter you would love for the club to be to blame for Cameron leaving. But that is just MFCSS. The only thing we have done to force his hand was to start rebuilding in 2008 to win a flag. And Cameron realised that he is 10 years older than our best talent. He left for a flag.

Jr was also on 1 year deals. Jr had a very good year and I guess if Cameron had told the club when he approached (or Nixon approached) Hawthorn in the first place, Jr may well be playing in 2011. Bruce may have a trigger, but he had a VL spot all to himself in 2011 and 2012 - we had no-one eligible until 2013. He could have easily played two years at the Demons. This isn't about his 'long term security' - he is 31 FCS. HE wants a flag.

No that is not all. He is on less than he would be here. He has no gaurantee of a second year. And the only difference seems to be the position on the ladder of the two teams and a trigger on a second year (something irrelevant to his position at the Dees as he had a 'free' spot on the VL for the next two years). He wants to win a flag, fine (frack! I don't know how many times I have said that). But don't intimate to hacks like Ralph that you were treated with contempt by my club. Because you weren't, Cameron. We pulled you out of the ammos and gave you a chance and you more than repaid the investment. But don't make up sh!t.

I cook alot and use Pine ....

I would agree with you. Frawley and Moloney giving it to two kids smells like someone had a chat to the future vice captain and our AA half back to 'season' the kids. Todd Viney could give a spray at training IIRC, but he wouldn't influence anything like that now... Would he...

Yeah, I saw that. I wish the bloke had enough pine to say ' I want to win a flag so i'm pissing off' rather than intimate, through hacks like Ralph and the awful Nixon, that it was the club pushing him out. Where are your jibes now, Bobby?

It's a symptom of the syndrome - anything that goes wrong is the fault of the club.

Ill feeling?! Huh? I wish him all the best without wishing he wins the flag. I'm horrible!! The bloke left to win a flag and that is fine but I don't like the way he went about and left MFC fans thinking, erroneously, that the MFC was to blame for his histrionics and his decision to leave. He can return to the club in time and wish him well in his personal life. I certainly wish he doesn't win a flag with Hawthorn though...

I wish him all the best. But the same way you wish your ex 'all the best.' And it doesn't include wishing them luck in running off with your current girlfriend (the equivalency of wishing Cameron would win the flag). We are definitely getting better with our metaphors...

Jeez, did this post come out of nothing?! Heh. Really? I hope they miss the finals and Cameron ends his career and a nonchalant Bailey says that they still had a VL spot free in 2012 if he'd stayed but that's 'history now.' Guy left. Guten tag.

I take it from the silence that I, and others, have convinced the hand-wringers and that Cameron left for reasons of his own ego and not because of our contempt as a club. Hooray, it's over!!! Celebrate good times, come on!! I will.

''That was the part of where Melbourne was heading. They are driven by a young and youthful list, and to come to a club that's got the experience and are really ready to have a crack at it [premiership] is something that was appealing to me.'' Bruce has been offered a one-year contract on less money than he was offered at Melbourne. "It's a year-by-year proposition now,'' he said. ''I just have to be performing. I don't want to come to a club and be expected to be given a free ride. I am coming here to make an impact and hopefully it goes beyond the one year, but if I am not performing I don't deserve another year. ''It's [not about the money], it's about enjoying my footy and being involved in a bit of success. I am going to get a great opportunity here to do that. It's definitely about footy that is the No. 1 goal and the rest is irrelevant. These are direct quotes from a Ralph (ugh) story in The Age yesterday. Yes, I know. I live in Canberra, we get the news a day late. He says he wants a flag, there is an inference he is on less money, and he accepts the year-by-year proposition. Check-effing-mate. Finally! Now has everyone come around to the fact that HE left for his own reasons and we didn't insult him with our 'contemptful' contract terms? Edited: Bolding the frack out of it.

I doubt that. I really do.

Thomo and Bobby are (still) saying we pushed out a bloke we offered a contract to. I guess we were bluffing... Honestly... And about this 'glass 1/2 full' thing. The glass is obviously empty because we didn't offer the water a second year and that is a massive slap in the face to the water as it as now moved to ... i don't know... the toilet bowl. I think we are getting better with our metaphors surrounding MFCSS. It's good, good...

Yes. Ouch, old friend. I remember when you used to call yourself 'Hot God'... Massive tickets... Just huge...

Criticism isn't abuse. That's a statement that could be put in a sticky thread i reckon... We are at Casey for a reason. And it ain't about training accessibility or facilities.

I have owned you on many occasions. That isn't really true, but a good comeback never-the-less. Undeserved, yes. Not very good at smack talk.