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Cannot believe you are doubling down on this. Unfathomable. Frawley has played one great game and looked mostly lost for the rest of the time. Pedersen is a fighter and I am glad he is showing something in the multitude of roles he has been thrown at. Dawes is coming off a couple months out and trying to gain match fitness and form - at least he gets his hands out and throws his weight around. Frawley, for some unknown reason, is trying to body out and take marks in his lap while turning. I thought he had learnt a thing or two from playing on all these gun forwards but if he keeps doing this I will have to dismiss that notion. I am not about to get into another Watts slanging competition where we all try to out do each other with wringing hands and knashing teeth but you are the one kidding yourself if you think that Dawes was outshone by Watts on the weekend. I didn't see Dawes getting a very obvious spray at 3 qtr time...

Did they love him when he was 23? He had been tar brushed as a soft outside player who doesn't get enough footy and the footy he did get was off half back from sideways kicks. It took a while for this to leave the general football consciousness to the point where you have no idea what I am talking about but I remember it. And it is a lesson that all that is does not have to be the same way for eternity.

I wish you had St Kilda supporting friends and their opinion of a 23 year old Brendan Goddard...

My mistake, I don't recall much from that game. For obvious reasons.

Disgusted though? A few people went to him - he had the misfortune of kicking his first goal in a ridiculous manner while spurning an imposing leader who was a much better option. More blokes should have got to him but let me just say that the first thing Tyson said to Salem was 'there were better options than an off-balance snap.' Salem admitted as much after the game when he said he should have given the handball. But it went in. What if JKH missed that goal? I wonder what the Game Day thread would have contained in the seconds after that miss and Dawes' reaction to the miss? Some of Demonland's finest work I would wager.

I would agree. But it goes back longer than 2008/9. Way longer.

'Disgusting' oversight? 'Disgusting' and 'apologist' would be the two most overused, and poorly applied, words on this forum.

I mentioned this a couple a days ago - there are those that thought Neeld was so inept that he was the reason for us being where we were. And they, and you, are coming to the realisation that it wasn't just Neeld failings that sent us to where we currently dwell. Our list needs work, our best players need help, our forward line was, and still is to lesser extent, in massive trouble only a few weeks ago. And his wage has nothing to do with how quickly he can turn us around - only how well and lasting the turnaround will be. He got Cross and Vince and had a few months with the group in Pre-season - I don't see that as sufficient to get us to where you think we should be.

Wow, maybe you would like to post about Barry being unable to play in cold conditions while you are running at this peak in your Land career.

As Roos said - if we are 2 wins at the end of the season - Watts is way back in a long line of problems at this footy club... Isn't this why we got Roos in the first place? We were all worried that the development of the players was haphazard, non-existent, or outright awful - who is the poster child for that? "Please Welcome the Number 1 Pick in the draft Jack Watts..." We all want blood because we are looking through a wide-angle lens - Watts' career, as Cudi said, may as well be 6 weeks old. I haven't done my obligatory List Management thread yet because I really don't know who can do what under Roos and what he wants (and what he can get) from the players we have. Enter Jack Watts, Jeremy Howe, Jimmy Toumpas et al.

Yeah, it's a worry but it's less of a worry when it was just Viney as your blue chippers to help Jones. It is looking like Salem and Tyson will be around playing good footy for a while. Bloody early though.

Watts has got three years including this one, he has plenty of chances left. For those looking at a trade - take the emotion out - is he worth more to a Roos-led Melbourne than Pick 40? Roos should back himself to get something out of him.

More cadence!

He has a career of earning them to fall back on. I take your point but if we were to say that only those that have earned a game play a game - we would be selecting 15 blokes every week.

If there is a suitable, in-form replacement. Absolutely. But remove him for the sake of removing him mirrors the sentiment that led us to having a generation of kids that never earned their spots and were gifted games.

No, best 22. If there is a player at Casey better than Byrnes, that can play his role and is in better form - absolutely. Otherwise, Byrnes can keep his spot and the players at Casey can continue to learn the right habits and earn their spot.

Call me crazy but I would like to see how Watts reacts from this point against Adelaide. He could absolutely be dropped but this would be the first time he has been so chewed out by a coach that there is nowhere to hide from. Paul Roos told you your efforts weren't good enough - there was a bit of fire in his eyes and he came out and responded somewhat in the last term (his look was more promising than Howe's bewilderment). I would set him the task of redeeming himself this week in the AFL in lieu of the VFL.

I just hope that chat with Howe and Watts is backed up during the week. Don't care if they are dropped, I want our impressive leaders to tell them that there is no sympathetic ear for those that don't listen to what their coach tells them. Paul Roos is your coach - get angry and embarrassed, not indignant - you were doing the wrong thing.

There are threads devoted to the Casey alignment if you wish to search for it.

Jesus Christ Roos knows how to clog up a game... He knows what he is doing. It isn't pretty but...

Looked very promising...

Well, actually, in that particular year Jones went down less than 1 disposal, and Brent down almost 8 disposals. So no, I am not going to agree with that assertion at all.

They are the first numbers - he decreased his output by 2.5% in losses in 2011.

This took me 15 mins to do, Stuie. Please don't make yourself seem like such a pill when you tell me to have a hobby - you are also on here quite a bit, I just like to back up my comments with evidence. And I am hardly bagging him out, I am saying his input diminished in games we didn't win, for whatever reason, and I found that unacceptable for a senior player who was also our best midfielder. The notion that 'Neeld ruined him' is the fallacy here - Moloney had consistency issues - as I have proven here, well known behavioural issues, and defensive intent issues that Neeld was so ill-equipped to help him with.

Is it? This is the same argument used at the time. Let's have a look at how much Melbourne in 2011 fared with this statistic: 2011 Melbourne Disposals in Wins - 383 Melbourne Disposals in Losses - 336 Percentage Decrease - 12.2% Moloney Disposals in Wins - 28.5 Moloney Disposals in Losses - 21.1 Percentage Decrease - 26% If I was to be mean and include 186 where he was ill and couldn't play more than a couple of minutes, his percentage decrease jumps to 31.5%. As a measure, Nathan Jones in 2011-14: Melbourne Percentage Decrease in Losses - 12.2%, 16%, 10.5%, and 9.5% Jones Percentage Decrease in Losses - 2.5%, 15%, 15.5%, and +7.1%. I am not going to give Moloney an out for his game diminishing by a quarter of his output in games we don't win.