rpfc

That's a good way to put it! We have got the bends reaching the dizzying heights of recently arriving at the ankles of some clubs...

Yes, but in June 2014 he is 'getting the most out of them' - I can't think of a player that has gone backwards. Garland looks rusty and Frawley lost for half his games (or half a game), but across the board players are motoring at capacity of what they can do at this stage of their career (or for a few - at any stage of their career).

You may be confusing the Spencer announcement...

You are right RF but at some point we are being unfair to Toumpas. Wines has come in to a great situation and is a genuine outlier when it comes to kids coming into the AFL. I reckon if Jimmy gets a running coach and some confidence - we will soon forget about the kid we didn't take in that draft. But the larger point about our recruiting is spot on - it is the predominant reason we are where we are.

Dunn and Spencer updated. Clisby and Riley may not be OOC so keep that in mind. Cross looks almost certain to get another year if he wants it. Clark is already off the list of course. Frawley may leave of his own accord. Before I start to look at who to delist I always like to look at what we have coming into the club. Picks 5, 23, 41, and 59 will probably be enough from the ND. Frawley's decision is irrelevant here as he will either take a spot or give us Pick 6. Our 5th rounder will be Pick 80 something by the time compensation picks are handed out and that can go to Jetta for his elevation. No FAs will be picked up due to uncertainty around Frawley IMO. We may trade away picks for players but that is even more up in the air. I will allow space for one Delisted FA to be picked up. That leaves 4 ND picks, Jetta upgrade, and one DFA pick up. The Pre Season Draft is pointless at this point, especially with a few clubs below us. So that is 6 vacancies required: Clark, Nicholson, Tapscott, Strauss, Byrnes, and Blease are the ones in the gun with Terlich's decision making and howlers obviously frustrating those in charge. Bolded are those I would keep/elevate if it were my decision

What would like to see happen if we don't win 2 more games?

If we had snagged that game after playing like that this place would have been raving about how we can still win while playing so poorly... You know we would be. I am not satisfied with how we played for 40 minutes but the apocalyptic tone is a bit much... Again, some of you are just wilfully ignorant about where we are coming from. Our list is still impaired. This is not a 14 game fix...

Oh, yes, we must bow to our betters that give us oh so much... If we had a fair draw and regular home games against other Melbourne sides we would make money and we wouldn't have to be in a position to be 'given' a game by The Benevolent One. The NFL is the most equal game in the league - it is the best run, it makes the most money - and it is a bastion of Socialist Sports Inc. A beautiful mix of Communism and Capitalism that would be a inspiration to modern day China... If we are headed down the same path - and I hope we all fight for that - then running over idiots like Eddie on that path is something we are going to have to do. Equalisation isn't 'stealing from the rich' - it's not a Robin Hood allegory - its the realisation that there would be no league without the beggars at the bottom and the aspirants in the middle. If Coll, Ess, WCE, Freo, Adel, and Haw want to start their own league go and do it - my money will be on the AFL they leave behind.

Maybe I am a sap but I am still looking at the Geelong game... Bump this when we get flogged but we played terribly today and got beaten because God smiled on a teenager with a long last name.

I thought he was good today, provided run and had a few choice intercept marks, but I was thinking while he was back there that Dunn was getting less footy due to his presence - and with Dunn so superior to Frawley ball in hand it hurt our rebound. And Garland has no touch, he is making simple errors he hasn't made for 3 years. But let's not kid around - if we had displayed basic skill execution in the first quarter we would not have lost that game. But kudos to the Dogs - they have some good kids.

I think you answered your own question in a way - it doesn't happen to AFL-calibre footballers...

Sorry. And yes, the Dogs are trying to lose this game. 2 new players, lots of kids, but do they know who they are playing? lol Two teams might be frustrated Sunday evening...

You are questioning his leadership. Am I making that up? What is so appalling (whatever small degree of pall that you are referring) that would cause you to question his leadership? Are leaders not allowed to delay contract talks? I can make the leap that he is no Trengove when it comes to sacrificing for his club, but I don't hold leaders to that exospherical standard. I want to know why Boak and Cloke are lesser leaders for their respective contract delays.

Liam Jones out, Fletcher Roberts in. Who?

Maybe it's the US sports fan in me that this stuff doesn't bother me. Le Bron opted out of a contract but may remain with Miami. Just today, a few blokes were selected by NBA teams in the draft and then traded minutes later. Do one interview with one hat on, do the next with a different hat. Free Agents are not allowed to sign until the window opens, even if they are re-signing with their own team. The Restricted Free Agent model allows a team to match a salary that another team has agreed with one of their players. So your player has signed a contract with another team but you still keep him and everyone is expected to suck it up and move on. This is the new world that we are a couple of years into. I am happy to not read into anything personally and try to maximise as much of what is happening to the clubs benefit. This is a professional sport.

Actually I believe the article mentioned $800k... And he obviously is not an integral part of the backline. We have shaved 7 goals from last year and the I50s conceded still remain very high. The proof is in reality, Billy. That backline doesn't need Frawley. I didn't think I would be saying that a year ago but here we are. It would improve with him but enough to justify the investment of the wage Frawley is seeking (whatever number that may be)? I guess the club has to make a decision aswell as James - ironically, his recalcitrance is helping the club make a more rounded decision. Delay is sometimes good for all parties.

I have always seen the point and I made it early - is he stays around in 2015 he will go back and he will make the backline better, but 2014 is showing you that he is far from integral to our backline. The bigger point is that the club may not see $700k spent on making our defence slightly better a good investment. Throw that money at a midfielder and the gains are astronomically larger. That is essentially stmj's argument and one I largely agree with, save for the fact that there are no guarantees we can lure that $700k midfielder or turn that compensation pick into that midfielder. As RobbieF said - it's better to have one bird in the hand than worry about the theoretical bush.

Is this the death below? I am just curious to know what about his 'conduct' is so appalling? I think you are comparing him to higher standard that he shouldn't be compared to. Those players that sign up regardless during the middle of the year like Trengove did in 2011 at the peak of our nonsense, they are not the standard to hold all others to account - they are the rare exception to applaud and amaze. Boak is the new standard for loyal leaders at a club - explore your options and make a hard decision when the time comes. He made the harder choice and it is paying off for him. But he made it late, and he made it after meeting with the coach and LG of a different club. He has stayed and is applauded by all. Or perhaps not applauded by all?

At another club that doesn't have so many I50s to deal with - he would be dominant - especially with a highly skilled HBF to handball to...

Unemotional and ambivalent yet you question his leadership with regard to the actions that you are unemotional and ambivalent about? And the bitterness is more to the posters who think akin to the JV7 who two posts ago referred to Frawley as a dog. I would call that bitter.

Once again - over your head - he has been easily replaced in that backline. That is not a headline. He is easily replaceable forward next year - Hogan will actually attempt to get the dukes out and take it in his hands so there is an immediate improvement... If he stays for next season he of course can find a spot in the backline, he will improve the backline but not immeasurably. Dunn played Cloke better than any back I have seen at the Dees. Usually Cloke ragdolls his Demon opponent. I want to keep good players but there are very few players that leave a great hole, Frawley isn't one of them. He has left the backline with no dramas, and he will leave that forward line with requisite drama.

Yes they are. Why do players practice? What about if you miss it for a few months? What happens late in games to one's skills? I cannot believe that you, the self appointed king of Rational Demonland is going to sit there and say that missing part of the Pre-season (and the season) through injury would not affect a players skill execution... We all get frustrated by the plethora of excuses but sometimes there are 'reasons' for things and it is best to attempt to determine which is which if you want to make good decisions about player retention, etc.

Jones, Viney, Tyson, Dawes, and Hogan. The importance of those 5 are because of them being our star mid, two more mids that should get there, the leader forward role player, and the future of the club. The next would be some order of McDonald, Dunn, Howe, Frawley, Vince, Watts, Garland, and Trengove. And with so many of those players defenders it is little wonder why so many people want to 'swap' Frawley for a mid...

It's doing quite well without him... So if Dunn, McDonald, and Garland are doing fine without him - what does that say about his importance? There is a statistic used in the US called Wins Above Replacement Player and it essentially the worth of a player weighted against an average player for that position - how replaceable someone is. Frawley would not have a high WARP... He has moved out of the defence and our defence has improved by 7 goals. The causal relationship is not as simple as that but it is telling us that Frawley absence has been mitigated by the players that have moved down there (Howe, Jetta) or the improvement of those already there (Dunn, McDonald, Grimes).

Your last line is closer to what my point is - a leader is a leader because of the group below - he is not seen as a 'mercenary' to his teammates, as they are the other potential mercenaries in this new AFL landscape that does not reward early decision making on contracts. If they see his delay of talks (and as a purveyor of US sports - this is not a delay at all - simply proper process in the new landscape) as a sign of a lack of leadership I would be surprised. His teammates should, and would be, more disappointed in his inability to play consistent football in 2014 and for lazy involvements like the one that threw Terlich under a bus a few weeks ago against Collingwood when he didn't help the bloke out with a sheppard, when he could have. If you think he is a poor leader at the MFC for his non-committal utterances about tenure then what do we make of Roos or Jackson for that matter? How long are they here for, in what role? So my answer is that his approach to FA is irrelevant to his leadership of that group and an aspect of the new landscape that 'the club' should get used to. Clubs have been signing fringe players later and later these days - and sometimes delisting them before picking them up again (Jetta), the players have been given more freedom and it needs to be understood and dealt with, not met with handwringing and bitterness.