rpfc

Is this the death below? I am just curious to know what about his 'conduct' is so appalling? I think you are comparing him to higher standard that he shouldn't be compared to. Those players that sign up regardless during the middle of the year like Trengove did in 2011 at the peak of our nonsense, they are not the standard to hold all others to account - they are the rare exception to applaud and amaze. Boak is the new standard for loyal leaders at a club - explore your options and make a hard decision when the time comes. He made the harder choice and it is paying off for him. But he made it late, and he made it after meeting with the coach and LG of a different club. He has stayed and is applauded by all. Or perhaps not applauded by all?

At another club that doesn't have so many I50s to deal with - he would be dominant - especially with a highly skilled HBF to handball to...

Unemotional and ambivalent yet you question his leadership with regard to the actions that you are unemotional and ambivalent about? And the bitterness is more to the posters who think akin to the JV7 who two posts ago referred to Frawley as a dog. I would call that bitter.

Once again - over your head - he has been easily replaced in that backline. That is not a headline. He is easily replaceable forward next year - Hogan will actually attempt to get the dukes out and take it in his hands so there is an immediate improvement... If he stays for next season he of course can find a spot in the backline, he will improve the backline but not immeasurably. Dunn played Cloke better than any back I have seen at the Dees. Usually Cloke ragdolls his Demon opponent. I want to keep good players but there are very few players that leave a great hole, Frawley isn't one of them. He has left the backline with no dramas, and he will leave that forward line with requisite drama.

Yes they are. Why do players practice? What about if you miss it for a few months? What happens late in games to one's skills? I cannot believe that you, the self appointed king of Rational Demonland is going to sit there and say that missing part of the Pre-season (and the season) through injury would not affect a players skill execution... We all get frustrated by the plethora of excuses but sometimes there are 'reasons' for things and it is best to attempt to determine which is which if you want to make good decisions about player retention, etc.

Jones, Viney, Tyson, Dawes, and Hogan. The importance of those 5 are because of them being our star mid, two more mids that should get there, the leader forward role player, and the future of the club. The next would be some order of McDonald, Dunn, Howe, Frawley, Vince, Watts, Garland, and Trengove. And with so many of those players defenders it is little wonder why so many people want to 'swap' Frawley for a mid...

It's doing quite well without him... So if Dunn, McDonald, and Garland are doing fine without him - what does that say about his importance? There is a statistic used in the US called Wins Above Replacement Player and it essentially the worth of a player weighted against an average player for that position - how replaceable someone is. Frawley would not have a high WARP... He has moved out of the defence and our defence has improved by 7 goals. The causal relationship is not as simple as that but it is telling us that Frawley absence has been mitigated by the players that have moved down there (Howe, Jetta) or the improvement of those already there (Dunn, McDonald, Grimes).

Your last line is closer to what my point is - a leader is a leader because of the group below - he is not seen as a 'mercenary' to his teammates, as they are the other potential mercenaries in this new AFL landscape that does not reward early decision making on contracts. If they see his delay of talks (and as a purveyor of US sports - this is not a delay at all - simply proper process in the new landscape) as a sign of a lack of leadership I would be surprised. His teammates should, and would be, more disappointed in his inability to play consistent football in 2014 and for lazy involvements like the one that threw Terlich under a bus a few weeks ago against Collingwood when he didn't help the bloke out with a sheppard, when he could have. If you think he is a poor leader at the MFC for his non-committal utterances about tenure then what do we make of Roos or Jackson for that matter? How long are they here for, in what role? So my answer is that his approach to FA is irrelevant to his leadership of that group and an aspect of the new landscape that 'the club' should get used to. Clubs have been signing fringe players later and later these days - and sometimes delisting them before picking them up again (Jetta), the players have been given more freedom and it needs to be understood and dealt with, not met with handwringing and bitterness.

No he isn't. The very fact that he could leave and his on-field presence be replaced by a kid in Hogan should tell you that.

I said last year in the midst of rumblings over the players wanting Neeld out that Frawley was not in the top 5 players at the club. Jaded and a couple others scoffed at the notion - a year is a long time in footy. But the point is that no one is irreplaceable but also that there is something to be said for keeping talent around if you can. We were all so worried about losing players last year, specifically Frawley, and now we are swaying too far the way in my opinion.

You are kidding yourself more than me with this. This is a professional sport and a game of inches - if you are behind in any facet of the game it will show in every facet. You are the one who says the lack of skills is the reason we struggle as a team and as individuals - well, fitness is also a massive part of the professional footballer. Looking at every 'reason' you don't agree with and calling it an 'excuse' is another Ol' Demonland Special...

How is that?

We can't trade him. The disconnect here is that there is an absolute preference for a star mid over Frawley and that is what those that want to see him leave see when they think about the compensation he would bring. But that is far from a fait accompli and many of us think it would be better to keep what we have then hope for what pick 7 will bring and wait for for the kid to develop if we keep the pick.

Garland is coming off an injury interrupted pre-season, it was not going to be easy for him to slip right in. He has plenty of credits earned and is a leader, he is a long way from being dropped.

You should have just left it as the above, stmj. Which has been what you have been saying for a while now - that we don't have an over abundance of talented ball users. I am not sure many on here disagree with you, we do, however, find it distasteful the way you constantly talk them down. We don't live in this rosy future where all our players have desire and can execute consistently. We live in the here and now where we appreciate having some blokes who give a sh!t and are showing the promising kids what it takes the get the most out of yourself. And it isn't a simple as you make out - would you like me to search for references to Jetta and Pedersen and their lack of ability that you have made? The difference with them? Confidence and a role they can execute. IIRC you had a go at me earlier this season about my belief in 'roles' but Pedersen has found one, Jetta too, maybe a couple others will also be able to fulfil something in Roos' plan?

Massive plus for McDonald - his engine. He is a unique athlete playing a role that athletes can play - a negating role.

I am sorry, but the rate at which some of you think we should improve is unrealistic. And now there are threads about the 'good' young players we have and how they are fundamentally flawed. Improvement has been seen by some of our most maligned players which shouldn't surprise you - all Pedersen and Jetta needed was confidence, fitness, and a role they could execute. Helping Matt Jones with his decision making and McDonald with his skill sharpness and selection is a tougher sell. Some of you see my realism as acceptance of our current lot - if you think that - you are, I'm sorry to say, a bit dim. We are coming from a long way back and our list is simply not at a standard that some of you think it is from your reaction to this loss. Some will go, some will need more time to improve, and some will need to be allowed to properly develop (I laugh at posters who think JKH is 'AFL standard' already).

I am glad we have progressed to the point where we can put lines through promising kids names. Why don't you look at his age before you determine his fate? This thread is a steaming bag of nonsense. McDonald is a promising tall defender who needs refinement - he will be sticking around.

So many simple mistakes made, and by our best players. That game was even if not for our catastrophic mistakes that led to NM goals. And Salem needs to play for Casey for a month.

What the hell does that have to do with the Barenaked Ladies?

Yeah, 'One Week' was huge and a few other things...

Maybe?

I think it will be a two goal game either way. We don't have the killer instinct just yet and NM are still riding the wave of desire and application. What I do not want to see is a period of the game where they slam on 5 goals in 10 minutes. These guys always manage to walk over us for periods like that and it needs to be stopped.

Infamous for the ramifications for FS bidding, and famous for everything else.

There were posters like you who were adamant Watts was off last year. Your opinion is not based on anything other than your own exposed neurosis.