Thrice

I started a similar thread on 'Ology independent of this one. FWIW here's the OP: OK ladies and gents, it's that time of year to start those most subjective of beasts - the ideal 22. Some ground rules: I'm talking here the most competetive side, assuming full fitness and we can play the match on our terms. Round 1 will be different given injuries / lack of preseason / potential match ups. I've got a couple of more highly skilled players out of the side, but included a couple of others for balance. I've also eschewed the arcahic B, HB, C, HF, F, Foll format for 3 groups of 6 + interchange Defenders: Bartram, Frawley, MacDonald, Grimes, Garland, Morton Mids: Jamar, Moloney, Davey, Scully, Trengove, Sylvia Forwards: Green, Jurrah, Dunn, Watts, Petterd, Wonaeamirri Int: Bail, McKenzie, Tapscott (S: Martin) Emergencies: Maric, Jones, Rivers Automatic selections: D: Bartram, Frawley, Garland, Grimes M: Jamar, Moloney, Davey, Sylvia F: Green, Jurrah, Watts Solid selections: D: Morton M: Scully, Trengove F: Dunn, Petterd Int: Bail Fringe (could be replaced week-to-week based on match ups, form): D: MacDonald F: Wonaeamirri Int: Jones, Tapscott Martin The ability to clear the zone will be crucial in 2011, and for this reason I have included Tapscott for his prodigious kicking. Some will no-doubt question Bartram, but he's clearly the number 1 small defender; so gets in for that reason alone. Having both Rivers and MacDonald in the team has been so-far disasterous. MacDonald provides a similar contest to Rivers, but offers quicker decision making and skills. It's a similar story with both Jones and Moloney in the same side. You can hide one bloke who lacks a yard in the middle, but two is a bit much. Moloney gets ahead as he offers superior grunt. McKenzie is a different player to each, he's the blocker / tackler at the bounce who restricts the opposition's clearance of the ball from a stoppage. Another perhaps slightly left-field choice is Bail, but I think he's vital to the team's balance. He, along with Scully to a slightly lesser extent, is the 'fly-half' (to borrow a Rugby term - I guess you could also call him a Rover in the traditional sense). He provides the first-option for the clearance players from a stoppage with his run-and-carry, similar to a Montagna/Swan-type player. I suspect by the end of the year we'll be considering him another auto-selction. Wonna offers more than Maric when fully fit - he brings others into the game far better than Maric and we won't lose that much in opportunistic goal scoring. I also rate his defensive pressure higher than Maric (at this stage). Frankly I don't rate Jetta and Bennell on current evidence. Both have their individual upsides (Bennell: pace; Jetta: Defensive pressure) however both struggle to get the pill themselves or provide enough goals for a small forward.

How do you download the videos off the website? I thought they were streaming only

I don't disagree with that, but using the OP's definition of a 'star' as being top 5 in the league (Judd, Ablett, N Riewoldt etc) these guys just aren't it. I guess your definition is more liberal that Wolfmother's. Even if Frawley is Fletcher / Scarlett good, he won't be a star as per WM's definition. IMO Morton and Grimes could be A-grade but not elite, even as midefielders. Much like Trengove they lack the physical attributes to be elite players. That's no knock on their ability as footballers, it's just they way it is. If you don't have burst pace and gut-running ability you cannot be an elite mid; and as a forward you need to have a midfielder's endurance and be exceptional overhead and convert at >65%. Therefore Scully's our best chance with Jurrah an outside chance (ultimately it'll probably be his lack of endurance that will probably stop him from reaching the top). Watts hasn't taken a mark above his head in his career and has only been near about half-a-dozen marking contests in 20-odd games; that doesn't bode well for him reaching Riewoldt's level.

Mate your list is way over the top, I'll agree that all the players listed have the ability to make an appearance in Sheahan's top 50 at some stage in their career but that's about it for most of them. Morton, Frawley and Grimes have absolutely 0% of being considered in the Judd, Ablett top 5 category. They are defenders and defenders never get considered for Star Status (as per WM's description). Sylvia is a chance on physical attributes, but perhaps lacks the pure footy instincts to be a true star; on the other hand Trengove has the pure footy instincts but lacks the physical attributes to be a true star. I suspect Watts will be a Neitz level player - club champion but not a guy that all other clubs fear/envy. That leaves Jurrah and Scully, IMO the only two players that tick all the boxes that could propel them into the top echelons of the AFL, even then Jurrah's only an outside chance. However; the kids will love Jurrah and he could drag in a few thousand extra supporters, especially if we are a successful side over the next decade.

I'm not really that surprised; Chadstone is right in the demon supporting heartland of Bentleigh, Oakleigh and Ormond. I'm sure they would have a rather healthy turnover of dees merchandise at any time. Can anyone report on how the gear is selling at Knifepoint or Norflands? A similar result to Chaddy would be worth getting excited about!

I should have re-invented myself as someone thought provoking and interesting when I created a profile over here from 'ology, instead of using the same name. Sadly I didn't.

No it wasn't. Your twisted mind couldn't handle that someone roundly thrashed your vapid arguments, so you decided that accusing Haydo of bias was the only way to restore your *ahem* credibility.

What they're worth is a very relative term. St Kilda has obvisouly said they're interested in Frawley or Petterd and will do a straight swap for pick 9. If West Coast is willing to take picks 4 and 9 for Judd then I think we're getting off pretty lightly. It's obviously the best deal that we can get for a 2nd top 10 pick that West Coast are after. Other clubs with top picks must be asking for more than that, or otherwise indicated that they're completely off the table. You must remember that we're in well and truly the worst position in this case because we need that pick to do the Judd deal. Personally I'd give up Frawley.

Check out the thread in the regular footy discussion board. A quick precis though: A 'mobile' ruckman selected by Adelaide with their 1st pick in 2004 draft Not getting much of a run and from Victoria originally - wants to go home and is interested in us specifically (as we are with him). Is willing to go into the PSD, where we'd be a big chance to get him as both Carlton and Richmond have both said their not interested in a ruck. More likely that a trade would be done though for a lowly pick (either 3rd or 4th round).

Yeah cos they promised they'd draft him with pick number 1 in 2001, but shafted him for Hodge when he went in for surgery. And yes, that is the real reason; not the other one that everyone seems to think it is.

Sounds to be excellent news deers! Has anyone waded through the mire at bigfooty lately to see if there aren't any "inside words" from my mate who knows eddie mceverywhere that all this dees talk is a wind-up and that he's going to the filth? Just need to know for my blood pressure/sanity. PS. Tim_ could you fix 'ology - the suspense is killing me!

Jones quick? He's a slow as a wet week - that's why he went at number 12 in the draft. If it was on skills alone he would've been top 5. Remeber that chook has been ravaged by injury this year, cast your mind back 12 months then compare the two. McLean is the better player, no question. For the record the untouchables are: Rivers McLean Davey The reluctants are: Jones Newton Bate Bell Green (2008 captain) Trapper Everyone else I'd give up in a heart beat. Would people stop putting Davey up as a potential trade, especially for an UNPROVEN RUCK as sylvianator put up in another thread. He, along with Bell, are the only players with line breaking ability in our team. Look at Scarlett, Chapman, S Johnson and Wojinski's games today (and for the rest of the season for that matter) to see how bloody important line breakers are. Sure we look likely to get Judd, but we need more of them. We MUST NOT simply take one out and replace with another (no matter how good they are).