1964_2

8 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

I thought you had to delist 3 players rookies not included?

The way I see the list Jackson gets traded, Baker gets delisted and Rosman gets delisted then re rookied. Mitch is a rookie I think he will retire Majak has already retired Rosman will take his spot. We recruit Grundy and Chandler gets promoted that leaves us with one draft pick and 2 rookie picks.

 

Senior team

B: Lever, May, Hibberd

HB: Hunt, Petty, Salem

C: Langdon, Brayshaw, Jordon

HF: Petracca, McDonald, Pickett

F: Fritsch, B.Brown, Gawn

FOLL: Grundy, Oliver, Viney

IC: Harmes, Sparrow, Spargo, Neal-Bullen

SUB: Rivers

 

Casey

B: D.Smith, Turner, Rosman

HB: Bowey, Tomlinson, Rivers

C: Howes, Dunstan, Woewodin

HF: Laurie, van Rooyen, Melksham

F: Bedford, J.Smith, Chandler

FOLL: Weideman, Rookie, Rookie

IC: McVee, Moniz-Wakefield, Draft Pick Key Forward  

Needs on top of your selected Senior team

- a senior KPF to fill the gap until JVR ready to go. Even if it’s a “Geelong style pensioner” for 1-2 seasons (and cover for BBB/TMac injuries)

- smart player with kicking skills / class as midfield/wing depth

- Classy small forward (with strong defensive pressure) to keep ANB/Spargo honest. Maybe Chandler/Bedford if they can step up to next level? 
 

Address the above 3 and it’s a premiership team 

6 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

Maybe... but i actually don't think that was the case for our wins in the second half of the year.  If you look at how we were going halfway through the 3rd quarter in the GF, we looked just as impotent and vulnerable as we did on Friday - we were going slow up the line and Brown, TMac and Gawn were not able to mark.  Harmes gets through a stoppage to Fritsch and then we get two centre bounce goals in a row.  Brayshaw gets his out of nothing and Petracca from the boundary and then two more centre bounce goals.  The game was done.  But none of that came from attacking centre corridor play moving the ball from our defence.

As good as we were that day - this issue we were having in the GF has still plagued us this year - particularly against the good sides.

I heard an interview with a swans player (maybe Mills?) post game.  He said Melbourne are really dangerous in that once they get a goal they can pile on a few very quickly from the centre bounce.  During the week they talked about ways they could nullify these repeat goals.  So long as they slow us down in general play, we won't be a threat for the rest of the match.  Other than the start of the third, they executed perfectly.

 

 

Apparently “if we focus on contest, pressure and defence our forward line scoring will take care of itself.”

Is this mindset the issue? Have the players become too focused on reducing the opposition score, to the point that it affects our dare, willingness to take the game on and just attack the goals?

Is it worth us trying a mindset shift. “Hey boys, this week as well as trying to keep the oppo under 68 (or whatever the magic number is) we are also going to try and score 110 points. Wolf of Wall Street comes out if we score 110”

When we attack we look good. Premiership type good. I think this fact is why we are all so frustrated. 
 

7 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I suggest Wayne Carey - you never know what he has up his sleeve - or in his pocket.

And his anti-inflammatory’s might help CP5 and other injured players get through games. 
 

On 9/5/2022 at 12:36 PM, 1964_2 said:

How many times this year have we heard players and coaches after a loss say something along the lines of 

“We won the contest, time in forward half and a lot of the key stats we care about, but just needed to be more efficient going forward”

or 

“We had things on our terms for much of the game, but they just executed their game plan for longer than we did” 

 

It appears our “learnings” are always “need to be more efficient connecting with forwards” and/or “need to execute our game plan for longer” 

rather than “learning how to combat opposition tactics”, and/or “improve the method with which we play the game” 

 

 

Goody quotes from AFL 360

”You know your best is good enough, but we need to execute it for longer, we need to do the basics better for longer”

“The last six weeks our forward line has actually operated the best it has for the whole year”

“It’s a consistent theme for us that when we start to struggle in some games our forward line can have some trouble scoring at times.

But that’s not what we focus on the most in our game. We focus on our contest, our pressure, our defence, and we get our offensive opportunities on the back of that.”

”We’ve got one of the best groups of forwards that creates defensive pressure and intensity that you need throughout the game” 

SIMON, 0 - 5, AGAINST THE BEST 3 TEAMS. THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT.

Please SIMON. & Sorry for caps. 
 

17 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

I agree it would be good for him to go back to the wing. But in 2021 he kicked only 3 goals, had 35 defensive 50 rebounds, and 123 intercepts which suggests he spent some time in defensive 50. 

He played as a genuine winger in 2021, who would run back and help in defence, then hold his position, rather than clog up our 50 when we were attacking.

Played next to no time or games as a genuine half-back flanker in 2021, despite running back to help in that part of the ground. 
 

2 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Jackson to stay, Grundy to come over. We will be the kings of the long bomb to the forward pocket for the next decade! 

Can picture it already. Gawn/Grundy/BBB all holding hands in the left hand fwd pocket before contesting the mark.
 

How many times this year have we heard players and coaches after a loss say something along the lines of 

“We won the contest, time in forward half and a lot of the key stats we care about, but just needed to be more efficient going forward”

or 

“We had things on our terms for much of the game, but they just executed their game plan for longer than we did” 

It appears our “learnings” are always “need to be more efficient connecting with forwards” and/or “need to execute our game plan for longer” 

rather than “learning how to combat opposition tactics”, and/or “improve the method with which we play the game” 

7 hours ago, Swooper1987 said:

Not certain how easy they are doing it. Our losses to Collingwood and Freo in the run of three were largely injury/personnel based.  Injuries in game had an enormous impact - May, Petty, Gawn, Petracca.  Then the second loss to Collingwood could genuinely have gone either way, similar to our first loss to Sydney, again without May. Lack of discipline cost us more than anything on Friday night.  I reckon those sides played at their best to beat us - that's not easy to do every game.

All good points. But we are 0-5 against the 3 clear best teams in the comp. Tough to argue we have been unlucky 5 times in a row. 
 

49 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Not buying the doom and gloom.  I've seen enough sides in identical positions to us now (with even worse form coming into finals) make GF's or actually win it.  Dropping the first final isn't necessarily an impediment to winning a flag. Just this century you've got Brisbane in 2003, Sydney in 2005, West Coast in 2006, Hawthorn in 2015, Richmond 2020; then teams who have made the GF after losing in week 1 include Sydney in 2016, Collingwood in 2018 and Geelong in 2020 just in the last 6 years.  Add to that the Bulldogs who won a flag and made another GF (2016 and 2021) playing each week. 

Very historical but both flags our own coach played in were 4 week finals campaigns - in 1997 they won them all and in 1998 they lost the first one then got three in a row to claim back to back. Let's hope history repeats.

Agree with you that losing the first final is not the issue. Especially with the pre-finals bye.

The issue is the ease with which the best teams pick apart our system, knowing we won’t respond or change much. 

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Until we win a game against a top 4 side, I suspect Melbourne supporters will be twiddling their thumbs on 24 Sep.

Friday night was a chance to atone our record against one of our bogey sides (Collingwood being the other) and put in a rare excellent MCG performance. We once again failed.

Agree. Both Geelong and Collingwood played exceptionally well yesterday. Levels above us unfortunately. 
 

We have 3 of the best 5-10 players in the comp, and 5 of the top 20. With that level of talent, I can’t accept that we are not capable of executing a better plan and/or game style. 

Spot on.

I don’t buy the theory that Sydney’s pressure forced us into the game style vs the free-flowing play against the lions either.

We went into the game with the strategy 

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

Trac had 24 disposals at 46% efficiency for the match.

I am confident Joel Smith could have at least broken even with him over the last 3 quarters and maybe given a point of difference 

Maybe. Be a tough call to sub him off though. Especially when you know that even on 1 leg he still commands a quality player to try and shut him down. 
 

4 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

BUMP. 

Let's hear it 'loaders'. 

Don't go quiet now!

Would love some analysis surrounding our noticibly low energy/motivation levels last night that clearly impacted our ability to bring our pressure game which the rest of our game-plan relies on...  Sounds familiar.. 

I mean, it was eerily similar to the game we played against them earlier in the season. Yet the loaders were more than happy to dissect that game and point out that our lack of energy was due to the heavy loading phase we were going through. 

@binman @Lord Nevand @1964_2 we're all waiting for last night's explanation for an almost identical game. 

Or are we STILL LOADING?

Over to you loaders. 

 

Without doubt the loading camp (myself included) dismissed obvious game style issues (and player related issues) during the loading period, and got it wrong to expect those issues would simply disappear when at or near peak fitness. 

I have no issues admitting that. And to argue the contrary would be delusional. 
 

37 minutes ago, binman said:

Seriously?

He was moving like a cripple in the second half.

I was gob smacked, and remain so, that Goody didn't bring Smith on for him. I mean, what the point of having a medi sub if you don't use it when needed?

We were basically down a player for a big chunk of the match. We really needed the run Smith and energy would have contributed.

Totally baffling. 

Pretty confident Smith wouldn’t have delivered more than Trac’s 13 second half possessions, 9 contested, 3 clearances (despite being on 1 leg) 

Just checking there is not an error in my AFL app :- M.Gawn 2 goals since R12 ??!

(yes I understand he plays a role to bring the ball to ground, rather than solely focused on goals / score involvements) 

42 minutes ago, SPC said:

We have games where we move the ball quick and take risks.. beautiful to watch….other games we play this safe slow mode. I hate watching the safe mode, even if we win close games- it doesn’t make me keen to go watch.

Would love to see something new next year.

And we don’t appear to recognise mid game when the safe slow mode isn’t working. Longmire / Scott / Mitchell / Clarkson / McRae and others would tweak things mid-game. Where as our supporters know to not even hope for mid-game changes, as they rarely come. 

 

5 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Our biggest problem is our game plan.

A team like Sydney don’t allow the backs to make it a half ground press, they keep some honest along the half forward line meaning when the ball comes through the middle they have all the space and slice us up. 
Goodwin should have seen this 3 months ago but we have stuck with it, which is great when it works but when it doesn’t, nothing changed or ever does. 
Said this ages ago, we need a actual forwards coach that knows how to structure up a forward line, this kick to the pocket and hope for a re set is great… except it’s always to a 1 on 3 with zero crumbers around.

I mean we didn’t even try to isolate Fritta or Trac or anyone deep last night, we just kept on keeping on. It will be enough to beat the Lions but we are about to get slaughtered in the Prelim.

Agree.

Maybe I don’t know enough about footy. But can’t get my head around the strategy of having Jackson/Gawn (or Gawn/Brown etc) together in a pack and bombing it to them from the wing or half back flank. Sure it’s predictable for us, and we can try and win a contest when the ball hits the ground (and get repeat entries) But it’s also incredibly predictable for the opposition, who can setup both defensive cover, and outlet players ahead of the ball (because they don’t have to defend the whole ground - just the area where our talls are standing together), for the times they do win the ground ball contest. 

I place little blame on Brown / Koz / Melk for their lack of impact last night, and most of it on our game style. 

Why did we abort what worked so well against the Lions?? 
 

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

How did you wake up? Do you realise that we are not as good a ‘team’ right now as Sydney? 

I honestly don’t know what you are flagellating with me about. The fact I wouldn’t fire Goodwin? The fact that I don’t agree our galaxy of stars means we should automatically win? Teams win flags, not individuals.

I have woken up with 2 main thoughts in mind.

a) We had the game on our terms, but then lost momentum when buddy sucked May in with a 50 goal. The players lack of ability to reset here and get momentum back was disappointing

b) We were comprehensively out-coached. Lost the game in much the same manner to how we lost to Syd last time, Collingwood, and a couple of other top 8 teams. We reverted back to kick down the line, get repeat entries and expect to win the contest. This game plan doesn’t work against smart coaches, with skilful players who can move the ball well, and exploit our plan. It hasn’t worked during the H&A and it didn’t work last night. Was expecting us to play with the style that was successful against the lions last week - fast ball movement, switching out of defence, through the middle. Didn’t happen, and we paid the price. 
 

31 minutes ago, CYB said:

I don’t think that at all. They left everything out there tonight. It wasn’t a lack of effort. I’m a broken record - I know - but our game plan in’s vulnerable to a certain style of footy. We are fast becoming the next Geelong. 
 

This season is out of reach bar a miracle. We must adapt to the new style of footy over summer. Funny but our 2018 game style would be handy right about now. 

I felt we had the game on our terms and won, until buddy sucked May into the 50. They got a sniff from that, and we didn’t put them away when we had the chance. 

Sure strategic, coaching and other issues. But we had a chance to put the game away early if we had the killer instinct. 
 

1 hour ago, von said:

I guess the upside is we were average they were good, they got a couple of goals from very soft free kicks and they only won by four goals. Feels like we are miles off but we are still thereabouts in a lot of areas. 

Agree with all of this, and would take comfort from it if it was a H&A game. But it WASN’T. It was the first chance the players had to play a final in front of supporters (after winning the flag)

Kills me more than anything to admit it, but Dermott is correct. We are missing the killer instinct ingredient. 
 

48 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Our whole tall forward set up this season and our forward play in general (aside from the odd individual cameos) has been piece meal at best since Macca went down.

The lack of structure, the constant bombing and/or kicking it to the pocket has never truly been corrected.

When you still have one of your key forwards screaming at two senior players in front to move out of the leading lane at this stage of the season .... well ....nuff said.

The present forward set up/system/methods/cohesion with mids/execution and in some cases individual player form/ability & consistency just isn't reliable enough to kick a winning score against the top line opponents.  We've seen / witnessed this pretty much all season aside from against Brissy.

Yep, we all just generally give way too much credit to the system / method / strategy. So many under 10’s style errors, just embarrassing.

52 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nah that's crap, Melbourne supporters sat on their hands all night, only a couple of goals in it early in the last and couldn't get a [censored] peep out of them. I hate to say it but we have one of the worst group of supporters in world sport. Kick off the tartan rugs and make some bloody noise, it was noticeable from the first bounce and didn't get better even when we got in front. It's embarassing.

“Goals to fuel the energy” what a horrific cheese platter loving comment that is…Dr you are absolutely on the mark. So sad to admit it. 

23 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The problem is our supporters sit there waiting to react to what is happening on the field. It's a final, chance at a prelim on the line - make some bloody noise for the team!! You don't have to sit there waiting to be wowed, create the atmosphere you want the players to feed off. Start of the last, 2 goals in it, all on the line - [censored] crickets.

Absolutely spot on. 
 

Dermott Brereton said we are missing the “un-sociable” elements to make us a dynasty team. At the moment, unfortunately he is correct and we are wrong.