1964_2

15 hours ago, adonski said:

Fair enough, but ultimately Jeelong have smashed the Swans in the middle & in general play. Jeelong would be winning today regardless of who they had up forward to kick it to.

Hawkins was pretty critical early, in making sure they got some reward for their midfield dominance. 
 

Watched the full game. 2 things I learnt. Dees are very very good. Secondly, the standard has improved dramatically since the last game I watched last season - AFLW will continue to grow at a fast rate IMO. 

Go Dees! 
 

1 hour ago, Travy14 said:

Could we be bold and make a play for Logan McDonald who has just been dropped for a GF?

Another WA boy,  but might be a vulnerable time to strike??

Logan McDonald or Hayden McLean - either be great, and fills a need

34 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Were they?  

I had the impression the ABC story was based on separate interviews by Jackson with HFC players. 

According to McLachlan last night on AFL 360 the ABC story had info the HFC report did not and vice versa.  If the ABC story was based on a leaked  HFC report one would expect the content to not vary.

Disagree - any top journalist who gets access to this kind of report, is always going to leverage it by finding extra info or detail that will be credited to them 

On 9/21/2022 at 8:15 AM, layzie said:

I heard Brisbane had the flu last week..

Pies also had the flu first final 

2 hours ago, 58er said:

The consequences have already been highlighted by bringing these matters out in to the open. Livelihoods have been effected for all to see already. 

Your only looking at this from one side. 

Yes both sides will have their day in the commission that's being setup but consequences work on both sides remember before or after legality or the decision making is finalised. 

There  may very well be no winners from this sporting tragedy, especially if there are no learnings by the AFL (and it's Clubs )  from the Adam Goodes, Adelaide Camp and Pies "do better" cases.

BTW there has been no dispute in these past cases in the AFL about the level of racism and hurt created so I am very surprised at the numbers here Querying the honesty in the present case.

We only need to look at the racist comments Kossie has faced so far in his career that no one seems to invent these  actions of a racist nature. 
 

No mate, you have missed his/her point. No matter what % chance you think that the story is accurate, we have still only heard one side and haven’t finished a proper investigation. Therefore the trashing of reputations does need to wait until this process is finished. 

The post is not minimising the trauma and tough times these families appear to have gone through - it is just making the point that if Fagan/Clarko are actually innocent they most likely already have damaged reputations that won’t be repaired. (Due to media/public already forming an opinion without waiting for the proper process/ both sides)
 

2 hours ago, chookrat said:

I reckon the media and public have gotten into a frenzy over specific details by one side without any broader context.  I'm bewildered how Hawthorn conducted such a review and reported its findings to the AFL without interviewing Clarkson and Fagan as part of the process. I accept the allegations are serious and should be properly considered but that they have made their way into the public domain before Clarkson and Fagan have had a chance to respond to the allegations. What happens to their reputations if it turns out the players made things up?

Completely agree. Destabilises 2 other clubs, and shifts the attention away from the hawks as well 

Just now, gOLLy said:

Very interested in the other side of the story.

I think there is little doubt there will be variances in the story from the other side. Very interested in how they are going to navigate an outcome if there is a lack of evidence as to which version is the truth. 

7 minutes ago, redandbluemakepurple said:

Sorry 1964_2, if I appear to be jumping down your throat without reading all that you have written but awareness and education by themselves have failed. The victims need to have their claims explicitly accepted as true, see a negative consequence for the perpetrators and redress/compensation for themselves.  Football, ADF, my former Govt employer have been saying that they will change for decades but do not.  I point out that the Collingwood report was called "Do Better" rather than "We Truly Were B*stards".  The current Hawthorn Pres pointed out that discrimination exists in throughout Australian society but not that the behaviour of his club sickens him.

In complete agreement.

More definitely needs to be done, including accountability for perpetrators.

I guess I meant separate to the investigation and formal process, hopefully it also wakes some more people up. But your point is a good one, just hoping for things to improve is not doing enough. 
 

11 hours ago, Neitz the Great said:

As someone married to a person of colour, albeit Indian not First Nation. I have forever seen the sacrifice and hardship that she has faced due to her skin colour, religion and overall appearance.  
 

This is a current day problem, and not one “in the past”. People of colour go through daily racism and ignorance due to their appearance, culture and beliefs despite their education and intelligence. 
 

My partner is a well respected lawyer and an amazing wife and it pains me to see what she goes through on the daily. I cannot begin to understand what these people have been forced to go through. People saying these are alleged accusations, I ask what possible benefit these First Nation people would have gained from making false accusations. This is a part of Australian society, and something that is not new or different for people of colour to face. 
 

As Gerard said on AFL 360, it is the stolen generation repeated. 
 

People of colour have and will continue to be used for entertainment purposes only. It is time the world takes a stance, and that people of colour, or in reality, non-westernised people, are truly appreciated for the value they bring to society besides their entertainment capacity. 
 

I’m sorry if I’m emotional, this is just a topic that speaks so true to me through second hand experience. I have shed some serious tears today running through this topic and hearing the press releases. DO BETTER AUSTRALIA. 
 

With much love,

 

Tom

Neitz the great - Sorry for the hard times your wife goes through! The only positives that can come out of these situations is awareness and education. Let’s hope things improve dramatically in years to come. 
 

Hugh Dixon cut from WCE.

better than Weid IMO. Could be worth a look

21 hours ago, CYB said:

JVR needs to be given time to develop as the 3rd tall. Problem is Fritta plays that role. So either JVR has to take the defensive jobs ala Melksham style or we gamble on him as 2nd tall and not expect much for 2 years. 

I’m not sold on Petty as a forward. I think he is a future AA CHB. 

JVR is more than a 3rd tall. First or 2nd. 

8 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

No [censored] Gil.

But I bet you will protect your mate Clarkson. He always gets what he wants from the AFL. Rule changes, draft concessions, the ability to racially vilify players. It's all fair game for some. 

If they are consistent (and the allegations are proven to be correct) then Clarkson should never coach again. 

We will see. 
 

13 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Agreed.  While what is reported are 'allegations' it is not as if someone has run off whinging to the media. 

The report would have been prepared by credible people and cleared by lawyers at various levels as would the reporting at the ABC.

The AFL are using the term 'allegations' of 'historical' events, a term often relating to events of 30+ years ago.  These were in the last decade or so.  Nothing 'historical' about them.

While Hawthorn can say the key people are no longer at the club and things have changed to try and cover itself, which doesn't wash, that script isn't available to the AF given it involves two of its senior coaches.

Well said. Time doesn’t heal these kind of wounds. It just makes it worse when those in power run campaigns of denial, cover-up and lack of acknowledgement/apology. 

Really big test coming up for the AFL in regards to how they deal with this

4 hours ago, Demonland said:

Goodbye Luke 

 

Send him to north..

Tom Scully the 2nd. Ship off already LukE.

8 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Small forwards is something we have an over supply off.  I reckon they got lazy and looked for the easy goal over the back rather than hitting the front and square spot.

We went past the contest, it happened all the time I first thought it was timing then later in the season it was more looking for the easy kick.  Looks great running into the open goal, looks even better a front and square snap

Do we though?

Spargo and ANB are small fwds, who couldn’t get dropped, despite some very average form. 
 

15 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

even further, i'd say his best performed positions are:

1. half back flank
2. wing
3. inside mid

Fair call. 
Gus would be a great, complimentary mid for many other teams.

Unfortunately for him he has similar strengths and weaknesses as Trac, Oli, Viney, and will most likely remain 4th in the pecking order.  

Our 4th mid needs to be a quick, classy, smart mid, with great foot skills (not asking much)

If we go into 2023 with Trac, Oli, Viney and Brayshaw as our 4 mids for the year. Think it will be an indicator we haven’t learnt much, and stubborn goody is back in a big way. 
 

17 hours ago, rpfc said:

I don’t think the half a dozen games is enough of a sample size to know how it will go. But I do know that they are going ahead with that foursome as our primary mids into 2023. Which means that we have to find complimentary players to take the rest of the minutes in the midfield. And I think that would mean quicker players with precise skills that play outside would be desirable. 

Added to that, these 2 or 3 players also have to be forwards first IMO as that is where they will play predominantly. This is to make our forward line more dangerous than it is now.

The above doesn’t describe Swallow, Jordan, and Harmes in my view. You can get away with 1 non-factor in the fwd line, but more than that??

Chandler.

19 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Sparrow’s not amazing at pressure but on transition he cuts off the corridor with his defensive motor, change of direction and frame. Plus he wins or nullifies contests on the outer ring of contests. His defensive running tops the Telstra tracker each week and highlights why we don’t get opened up in the middle.

He plays a lot of midfield when Petracca takes a centre bounce and goes forward.

Brayshaw’s made our midfield too slow, too ball focussed and hasn’t added any skill. We started playing just like 2018 again. It was worth a try but the Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca midfield has never worked against the best teams. Plus we still have stuff all depth unless we’re planning to draft the Casey bash brothers in Mitch White and Jimmy Munro.

So we have seen Brayshaw play as a  Wing, HBF, and an inside mid. Clearly capable to play all 3 well.

I believe Gus’ preferences are

1. Inside mid

2. HBF

3. Wing

But, I believe Gus’ best position for team balance and needs are

1. Wing

2. HBF

3. Inside mid 

Be interesting how this develops over pre-season. 

3 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

True, but Petracca kicks goals (or points) or set them up directly with his kicking. The umps often like a bit of flash 

Which is why we should care more about the coaches award, and not the umpires award. 
 

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

There’s 2 big challenges for Clayton:

1. kick more goals and become more damaging with his disposals so that it’s undeniable he’s the best in the comp

2. get the umps on his side. Less back chat, less diving, less whatever it is he does to annoy them. He gets far fewer free kicks than he deserves and has consistently missed out on Brownlow votes 

3. The people that don’t know footy as well (umpires) tend to favour Trac over Oliver in games when they both play well. Don’t get me wrong, I love Trac, and know he is a gun. But I feel umpires/media slightly over-value Trac, and slightly under-value Clarry. 
 

9 minutes ago, Flower Magic said:

Anyone who went to the pre season game and witnessed Cripps absolutely destroy us would have seen that he had got his body right and was in for a huge season.

Anyone who watched R21 vs Brisbane would know that he should have been ineligible 

1 minute ago, Glorious Day said:

My impression was the same. However, Neale actually got 29 possessions (2nd most on the field) and the highest AFL Fantasy Points on the ground (whatever that means).

Still, the game was set up in the 1st half and surely with an 11 goal lead at half time, Melbourne players should have been 3/2/1 in that game.

And Brayshaw nullified Neale, by running off him. Just no chance he deserved a vote. 
 

11 minutes ago, layzie said:

There's no way this brownlow was above board, there's just no way. Please start the investigation now, we'll stay with this all night if we have to.

Agree. How much would it cost for an official investigation? 

Cripps would even acknowledge within himself that he did not deserve that. 

What a stitch-up. They even gave Neale 1 vote in the last game to make it appear closer. can think of 8-9 players that deserved a vote before Neale. 

Joke. 

19 hours ago, BDA said:

Nothing wrong with our ball movement when we played the Lions in Rd 23. Perhaps the pies are better kicks but i don't think we have a fatal flaw in this regard. Coached properly i reckon we can tweak our game plan to be more adventurous and daring

There is a difference between hitting a target, when streaming out the front of a centre clearance (what the Dees can sometimes do), and picking off an aggressive corridor target from the half-back flank that sets up a goal (what the pies can do). 

Don’t kid yourself, our foot skills are not even close to the pies. Which has a direct correlation on our ball movement, and the game style we are capable of playing.