BoBo

It would be a brave move to dismantle their strength which is their forward line. But hey, could be a genius move if UH lives up to his potential this year and Naughton plays as an all Australian back. I really rate Naughton so I don’t doubt if they made that move that could happen to be honest. I actually agree about still trying for Lobb regardless of Grundy if it can somehow happen. He draws so much attention from oppo defenders, can take marks like you said and if Gawn or Grundy go down (not impossible given age and injury past) he’s more than a useful ruckman. I’m probably dreaming but he, we can all dream.

I’m shocked they’re even looking at him. Surely the doggies should be going for key position defenders above everything else.

What’s the reason for our drop off of pressure? Our pressure was one of the highest things about our game last year, so how could we have allowed to to drop away so badly. We went from 3rd in 2021 to last this year I think. Is it a loss of will to run from players as they just expected to win? Are they less fit? Do these factors came down to a cultural thing? I genuinely don’t have answers myself.

Collingwood went from 17th to a possible prelim through a different game plan that accentuated their teams strengths. Geelong this year look way more dangerous by moving the ball quickly and making adjustments to suit the players they have. Hardwick went from his possible last year to 3 flags in a row. All of this happened by the coach changing what they do. Goodwin needs to change (in my opinion) to mitigate his very evident faults. His faults mostly stem from the fact that he is way too conservative on many levels. One is: His game plan puts too much emphasis on players that aren’t good enough to carry that weight. His rigid game plan continues that emphasis on these players. I’ve said it in another thread, but ANB plays an important role in our team. We are better when he is in the team weirdly. But, he is not a good enough player in his role to fulfill the role and be as effective as we need him to be. That’s because of our game plan. So, he can either bring in better players that are able to carry that weight, or change the game plan to suit the players he has at his disposal. He can either persist with the 1 plan he is and getting 3-4 better players he needs (isn’t going to happen) OR he can adjust the game plan and allow the team to operate at a higher efficiency.

Yup. The rigidity of the coaching and unwillingness to test players out of their position is first order what’s to blame. Petty being put up forward and almost winning the game… amazing what happens when we divert from Plan A and move players into other positions. We made a change to address our problematic forward line and bang, result. What could have been with more adventurous coaching in 2022. Oh well. On to 2023 I guess and for the love of God, can we PLEASE come up with a couple of 2nd or 3rd order game plans coaching staff?

Yeah fair, I didn’t mention our fitness but it seems an issue for sure. I honestly think that TMAC would make us a little bit better for sure… but he is not enough to address the player/strategy issues we have. I’m only mentioning curnow/Mackay/Elliot as a hypothetical answer as a reason to not change from game plan A. As in, it * could* work if we had players of that caliber, but we don’t, so it’s fanciful to continue, like you said, My point about the game plan is that we don’t make changes to accentuate the players we do have, we just plow ahead and hope we’re good enough to win instead of reacting to what’s happening in front of us.

I agree. We rely too much on players in important roles that don’t have the skill and we impose a singular game plan on top of that which doesn’t adjust.

Game plan: Goodwin has one game plan and doesn’t stray from it. It worked in 2021 because essentially all of our important players were in a purple patch of form ( Gawn kicking a winning goal against Geelong round 23 and kicking 5 in a prelim?) coming into finals with a team that had no injuries. He doesn’t change players up mid game in reaction to what’s happening in front of him like Longmire would do, he will just accept losses if we’re beaten. I don’t even know what the game day coach does to be honest. Can anyone identify what plan B is? Or what changes we’ve made this year mid game? Any at all. For example - relying on Gawn to take amazing amazing pack marks all around the ground. Hasn’t worked for many weeks so far and yet we just persist. Tonight we tried to do a switch play which I’ve been calling for, for the entire year. We have paddocks of space to use and we still just kick it up the ground relying on Gawn to mark it. Forward Line: I’ve been saying this ( like a million other people) for years. It’s [censored]. In big games it will cost us and lo and behold, it just cost us then. Kicking to Ben Brown who had to compete against packs of Brisbane defenders blah blah blah. The answer to this is ‘yes, but we’ve kicked such high scores before’. Which is only true when Game plan A is working. When it doesn’t? No change. Fritcsh is exactly like Gunston. Except he has no roughhead or buddy to play with and he isn’t being handed the kinds of deliveries that Hawks midfield of them, we’re getting. He was a cherry on top for the hawks, for us, he’s our roughhead and BBB is our buddy. No wonder we’re so dysfunctional. When we score highly, it’s when game plan A is working. WE DONT HAVE A FUNCTIONING FORWARD LINE AND HAVENT FOR OVER A DECADE. We *can* score heavily if everything goes our way, but if not, we don’t have a plan B so our forward line deficiency’s get exposed. Like it just was. Over hyped list based on last year: ANB is a good, solid player. He actually makes us better with him in the team. In saying that: our reliance on him is absurd considering how much of a liability he is to us. Same problem with Salem who doesn’t have the heart of ANB but is way more skilled. He is a ghost of the player he was last year. No damage at all and he’s just soft. sure he’s a great kick, but Rich who is a similar player, makes him look average because Rich ads defensive pressure, which Salem hasn’t been able to continue. Melksham again, the reliance on this guy for what he is, is ridiculous. He was never as good as what we expect him to be and because weideman hasn’t come through, well, he’s just next. Our forward line, coupled with no clear plan for them to work with from our coaches, is filled with out of position players that are seemingly filling holes on top of an over reliance on players that cannot be expected to be the players we want them to be. We dominate from the backline (anyone that criticises our backline is just deluded and shifting blame, they hardly ever lose unless we get smashed up the ground), we spend large parts of games getting repeat entries with not a lot of reward whether that is missing easy goals or KICKING IT TO THE POCKET WHERE 3-4 DEFENDERS KILL THE BALL. Again, sometimes this works, but when it doesn’t, what’s plan B? What changes do we make? Conclusion: Ok my main belief in change is game plan. Been saying it all year even when we win. Not making changes and being so predictable that every fan knows what we’re going to do, is the problem. Secondary to this, we don’t have the players to just persist with game plan A, when there are coaches out there much more creative that Goodwin, that can negate it. CASE IN POINT: Petty goes forward for the first time this year in the last 5 minutes of a season ending game and voila, he gets a goal the could’ve saved us. If we were to bring in Curnow, McKay, and replace ANB or Melksham with let’s say, a Jamie Elliot type player, then sure, keep with Plan A. But that’s not going to happen…. So maybe we try and change things up? Ill just ask this, what is the difference between last years game plan and this years? Can anyone tell me if there is a difference?

Gotta say, I really hate the umpire excuse. I hate it when all teams use it, but I especially hate it when we use it. Should have buried the game in the first quarter. Should have kicked another 5-6 goals easily throughout the game. We let them get easy goals at the ends of quarters. There’s the game right there. We absolutely choked and all ire should be directed at us for many reasons.

One my favourite facets of what makes some boxers great is heart. Taking punches and continuing to fight like all hell no matter the odds and just willing yourself to keep going. We’re going to need all the heart we can muster to beat Geelong/Sydney/Collingwood to get there. Doggies did it in 2016, no reason we can’t.

Thank you! Sydney I can understand, but Brisbane and Geelong not having harder repeat games compared to Collingwood considering the final season draw isn’t announced until what, round 16? I could very well be wrong, but to me however you split it, a 17th finishing Collingwood should not have played more of the top 6 sides than Geelong or Brisbane.

After finishing 17th last year, how did Collingwood play more games against the current top 6 teams than Geelong AND Brisbane that finished in a prelim??????????

Sydney had a player ready to tackle or ready to receive a handball in every single contest. They were roving off our rucks. They obviously spent a lot of time focussing on systems and intensity around the ball. We didn’t have time to make good decisions.

The only problem with the whole crowd issue is: We’ve won 11 (I think) interstate games in a row. Logic would say that’s improbable given we would have no crowd presence away from the G… I agree that our home supporters (NOT THE CHEER SQUAD) are meek and frankly pathetic in trying to create noise to get behind the team. It’s really embarrassing.

Had an hour to cool down, I’m not even angry. They just purely wanted it more than we did and did an awesome job of shutting us down. Sometimes you just get beaten and there’s not much you can do about it.

Beaten. Beaten by intensity and a better coach on the night. Every normal Avenue we usually go to had a swans player ready to cut it off: We were beaten.

Out coached and that’s all there is to say. Watching it live, every avenue we go down that usually works is met with Swan pressure. We’ve been beaten in the coaches box.

I would pay a lot of money every single year to see the two squads of 22 play off in an exhibition game. Will never happen obviously but man it would be something. Some of my best memories of watching AFL is watching the Big V with Lockett, Ablett and Lyon in the same forward line playing SA.

I’m more confident we’d beat Sydney at the SCG than I am beating Pies at the MCG first round of the finals.

C’mon Bowey, give the selectors a headache coming into finals.

YES TO PETER WRIGHT.

Whoah, Sigur Ros as you first concert! I saw them at festival hall in about 2006, incredible. The win was ok too, haha

There were 3 comments from the supporters around me that encapsulated tonight: 1. ‘What’s with Ben Brown and marking?’ 2. ‘Please Melbourne, PLEASE do something different’ (referring to constantly kicking it straight up the line in field) 3. ‘F me, we kicked it to someone in front of goal for once’ I’m usually not negative about wins, but the frustration of myself and a lot of supporters around me was palpable. Options EVERYWHERE on the ground to switch play and give us better opportunities going inside 50 that we ignore. I’m not trying to sour a great win, was amazing to grab it, but, the frustration for the fans around me was palpable. Just not taking the opportunities available and persisting with the same thing every week. In saying all of that, we have the players to win the flag, just gotta make some tweaks IMO.

Look at the amount of effort we put in to keep it in our F50, virtually lived there in the first half. Then after all of that effort and not taking our opportunities, Collingwood would slingshot it out and virtually get a goal every time. Massively deflating for us mentally and physically for no tangible reward. We dominated that game and lost because we didn’t convert goals and didn’t honour guys in space or leads. The pies are a good side and we’re always going to comeback at us. They’ve won so many games this year by running over teams and our defense couldn’t absorb the speed that they moved the ball. They’re a one trick pony but what’s the argument that we aren’t one? Seriously, what is our Plan B? I also reckon that looking to last year is not helpful. We had zero injuries, came into a purple patch of form come finals and had not been worked out. If the game isn’t going our way, we are one dimensional, which has been the criticism of Goodwin for his whole tenure. Yes we won a flag on game plan A, but if that is being overcome, what else do we have? Many on here are way more knowledgeable than I am on footy, what moves do we make when things change mid game? In saying that, we’re still right in the hunt for the flag and I believe we’re good enough. But! We have to be able to respond when our game plan is either exposed or we don’t take our chances. The whole ‘sides have worked us out’ thing is only as damaging if we don’t change things up to suit the game in front of us. In saying all of that, our conversion rate has and is our main issue. It *can* work for sure, but when our forward entries don’t work? Then what? Dominate the game but lose on the scoreboard. What else needs to be said?

We’ve been doing it all year and it’s maddening. We cost ourselves goals every game (yes, even when we win). We make it harder on ourselves!!!!!!!!