BoBo

I actually disagree. Discussing racism in an honest fashion will inevitably lead to all of these links. Because racism is ingrained in so many parts of society. I’m glad that it has gotten to this point because it broadens the discussion and makes people think. it might seem disjointed or lurching into other topics, but IMO, you can’t discuss racism in a vacuum of just AFL as it stems from so many different quarters.

Ok, but you haven’t substantiated that the weight of racial abuse vs umpire abuse is closer than I presented it. I presented it as being gravely different in its implications for a host of historical and contextual reasons. So I’ll ask it in a question: In your opinion does abusing an umpire for their decisions carry the same weight as racially abusing someone? If you do agree with this statement then you have to show how the two are analogous with each other.

Ok, substantiate in what way racial vilification and umpire abuse are closer than what I have presented?

I’m against umpires being abused full stop. It’s a hard and thankless job and it’s a sport in itself to take part in it. But the abuse that umpires get is disanalagous to that of the kind of abuse that Indigenous people receive. Being racially abused as an indigenous person is by implication (because of history/context) saying that they’re sub-human for their skin colour. Being abused as an umpire isn’t intrinsically about their core identity as a human being. It’s based on in some parts a pantomime bullying effect that people engage in and also it’s about the actions that they make… which are changeable. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m pointing out that racial abuse is far different than abusing an umpire. For example, historically umpires have not been second class citizens or had the kinds of state-approved genocidal acts committed on them like indigenous people. So in that sense, comparing the weight between racial abuse of indigenous people and abuse of umpires is nowhere near comparable…

The way to solve this is to have these conversations and to educate yourself on the issue. When you hear casually racist comments from your mates/co-workers/family, challenge them on it. If by ‘fix this’ you mean stop online racism by trolls by 100% then that’s not completely attainable. But, remember that logic is the same as saying ‘well we shouldn’t have speed limits because people still die on the roads’ A way racism persists is that it is payed down as being jokes, or just words or the onus of responsibility is put back on the people being vilified as just ‘being too sensitive’ You can only control what is around you inter-personally in this regard. Racism is very complex and nuanced so the first step to fixing things is to start with yourself and wilfully try to understand where prejudices come from. In time, if enough people do it, then that’s how societal change occurs. I certainly had prejudices when I was younger and had to make the effort of where they came from and why I held the beliefs I had.

Oh my apologies, I didn’t see that part.

What is the segregation you are referring too and what indigenous awards are you referring too?

Right, but this is beside the point. People don’t oppose things for the sole purpose of making them 100% stop… you oppose them if they are morally wrong to minimise them from happening which causes harm to people. Also, this isn’t solely an issue of anonymity as Tex Walker has just been outed for racially vilifying an indigenous person. Was he anonymous when he did it? Is ALL racism in Australia committed anonymously online? No it’s not. So presenting the issue of racism as though it’s just about anonymous people online is dodging the obviously reality issue of ingrained racism in the society. I could name quite a few Australian columnists/commentators both political and sporting that are known for racism and are even known for spreading it in under their own names… which again, isn’t a case of anonymity. It’s a case of racism.

There is no ignoring though. You either make yourself visible and live your actual life to the values that you espouse or you condone racism by being silent. If trolls want condemnation online for their sick behaviour then I’m happy to give them want they want. But I will also back up my words in real life and not tolerate this kind of hate in person too. I am mindful of people who go through racism reading forums like this and I want to show in the small way I can that I don’t accept this, be it online or in real life. If other people just say the things they mean to say online and act in real life in another way, then that’s a shameful thing to do. I mean it when I say that I call people out on their racist remarks, however small or ‘jokey’ they think they are.

You can see how deeply it affects indigenous people from this clip.

This clip perfectly explains how racism is about history and context. It’s not just words.

It’s messed up to think how indigenous players went through whole careers coping with it. I will never forget when Dermott Brereton apologised to Chris Lewis a few years ago. Breretons whole team went onto that field and as a game plan, racially abused him to try and put him off his game. I will never know what that feeling is like and it must have been extremely painful and vicious to go through something like that.

The thing that I hear a lot from people that (wilfully or not) don’t understand the impact racism can have on people, is things like ‘it’s just words’ or ‘their overreacting’ or ‘it’s just a joke’. I still see comments on social media or hear people that I work with that say these excuses. At times I’ve been called a ‘white maggot’ by indigenous people. This has absolutely no effect on me as it is just a name and just words. There’s no history of my whiteness being genocided because of being white, no history of my parents/grandparents being taken away from their families because they were white, refused jobs because of being white, being viewed suspiciously, enslaved because of being white, my culture and language being purposefully erased by the state because for being white etc. etc. etc. There is no inter-generational trauma I face because of my skin colour. The same is very different for indigenous people. For indigenous people, being called a racial slur is hundreds of years of trauma, vilification, genocide and being assumed to be ‘sub human’ which is solely based on skin colour/culture. It’s not a joke, it’s not just words, indigenous people aren’t being too ‘sensitive’, these slurs are bringing up all of that history of being thought of as sub-human which is massively alienating and hurtful. It is something white guys like me will, never, ever understand or actually be made to feel like this. It’s alien to us as in racial terms, we have always been ‘normal’ (I.e. white) Australians. Once you realise the weight of this, there is no possible way you could dismiss this as being anything other than an incredibly hurtful, cruel and hateful thing to do. In my younger days I was too scared to speak up about casual racist remarks. But now I think it’s the very least that I can do to not accept racism in any form. It’s not funny, they aren’t jokes and they aren’t ‘just words’.

I remember hearing Luke Hodge saying that Harris Andrews was clearly the best defender he had played with... that is an amazing achievement given how good Hawthorns defence was for a very long time. Before this game I was thinking it’s good to have someone like Weid in because Andrews would HAVE TO follow him which draws Andrews away from our other forward. Give the Weid another crack against the pies to see what he can do. Key Forwards tend to have games where something clicks and their form becomes more stable. I remember when Hawkins was starting to find form after just doing ‘his role’ for quite a few years. About Weids age. Also, I completely trust the coaching staff in their decision making... 11-1 has earned that. So if they’re happy to keep Weid in then so am I.

For what it’s worth I had this happen recently... A friend of mine is from Argentina and we watched a game together as she had never actually watched an AFL game. Trying to explain the rules turned into a farce. Perfect example was holding the ball. I explained the rules and then she would continuously ask as we were watching ‘isn’t that holding the ball???’ To which I had some reason to explain why it isn’t... but even listening to myself was nauseating. It showed me how ridiculous of a game this is to try and umpire and that; something is a free kick one week but not the next was ridiculous to my friend. And I learned I don’t actually know what the rules are now as so many free kicks just aren’t paid and others are. And I’ve been watching footy for 30 years now.

Are there any modern commentators that are universally liked though? The discussions about commentators is almost solely about which ones people hate. modern = started commentating post 2000

I reckon us beating Richmond will probably be a motivation for the Tigers to come back hard.... They were [censored] last week as beat beat them up on on the ground and the scoreboard. Generally good teams that have that arrogance won’t put up with losing like that two weeks in a row. I think Richmond might pinch it in a close game but like you mentioned, no Dusty or Prestia in the middle against probably the strongest midfield in the game... gonna be tight.

Even Ricky Ponting is on board! haha

Nathan Jones plays for the rest of the year FULL STOP. The team solidarity around him to get success is massive and come finals, that will be an inspiration factor. He stayed with us when we were an absolute embarrassment. As long as he is on the park come September, other guys will give that extra 1% to do everything they can to give him a grand final chance. Not saying it’s all about him but my god, the team looks like they’re willing to die for each other at the moment. The fight at the end was a sight I haven’t seen in Melbourne teams for 20 years. We won’t be pushed around ANYMORE

The best sides just win. They win ugly if they have to. Today we played putrid football for at least a half. And still win by 50 points.

MUST KICK IT BROWN

Forwards need to present to the mids. Unless it’s Tom McDonald, I don’t see any other forward making a lead. Get running fellas

Just one of those ugly ugly games

Literally not one of our forwards made a lead then

I don’t care if it’s ugly. We just have to win from here. We’re killing ourselves with our skills which are WAY down. Legitimate teams win games like this. Just need to get it done.